Oil pan screws - rubber washers? Sealant?

Discussion in 'Airheads' started by nevada72, Sep 27, 2021.

  1. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    nope. It is marked "made in W. Germany, 11 1 600" The photos don't show all the different tapers. I did a quick look at Bob's fich but it a circle jerk as usual. $20 is what these things used to cost. But people would try to make crap ones out of conduit anyway.

    Your '71 will have unbrazed sliding collars unless someone brazed them or changed out the tubes. They can drive you nuts. It's a bad design and BNW abandoned it. The solution back in the day was simply to braze the collars. I think I used silver solder on my /5. A mapp torch is plenty and it can be done with the jug on the bench if you use a Blaze blanket ( good item to have anyway).

    pr 1.jpg

    pr 2.jpg

    pr 3.jpg

    About 7 1/2" long
    #21
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  2. bmwrench

    bmwrench Long timer Supporter

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    Since your bike is a /5, the collars won't have been brazed to the tubes. I move the collars to the correct place (with tubes removed from the cylinder), braze and repaint. It's fiddly, but worth the effort.

    I don't recognise the collars shown with the o-rings.
    #22
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  3. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    #23
  4. nevada72

    nevada72 Milwaukeeish

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    Thanks for the info guys. Looks like I have more work to do. Just so I'm understanding this, is the collar where I have the line pointing? Essentially the part that pushes the seal in?
    collar.jpg
    #24
  5. bmwrench

    bmwrench Long timer Supporter

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    Yes.
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  6. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    what ^^ he said.
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  7. nevada72

    nevada72 Milwaukeeish

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    I pulled the jug today to get a better look. Where would one see the brazing? I see the tube and the collar, neither of which have any movement at all.

    And a new issue arose - I noticed a "L" at the bottom. I looked on the left side and sure enough, there's a "R". So the jugs are backwards. Would that factor? Regardless, I pulled the other one so they can be where they are supposed to be. Now that they are off, what are my options for getting this done right? As mentioned, money isn't my concern (not that I have it to burn). I just want it right and to not leak.

    And while I have the cylinders off, I was told that I don't need the aluminum gaskets between the cylinder and the block. I was told (after I had the bike together) they were there to drop compression a bit. Can I ditch those?

    Again, thank you Plaka and Bmwrench for the help. I really appreciate it. You ever get to the Milwaukee area or should our paths cross elsewhere, I owe you some beer or coffee.
    #27
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  8. nmalozzi

    nmalozzi airheaded

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    I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will chime in. So don't act on my comments. However when installed on the correct sides, I believe the push rod tubes sit JUST forward (forward meaning towards the front of the bike) from cylinder center. This is why the head gasket can only go on one way. If true, I'd think/assume installing the cylinder on the wrong side would make for the pushrod tubes to be slightly out of alignment with the block. Which I'd have to imagine would cause leaks, as the seals would not line up properly with the holes in the block.
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  9. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    Yes, you can ditch the base gaskets. Yours look too bent to re-use anyway. They are to lower compression which allows the use of lower octane gas. handy when going to Mexico and burning Pemex. I believe the base gaskets came in two different thicknesses and then they can be doubles up (will run on Russian Boiled Boar Urine).
    You might not see the brazing. I looked at a pretty cruddy R100 jug and didn't see it. Might see an extremely fine gold line between the collar and the tube. may require magnification.

    First consideration is that you don't have the tools. The better ones seem to have dried up but you could watch ebay, etc. The best repair is fitting stainless tubes. They will have brazed collars. Pulling the tubes and putting them back in the correct location not so easy. I have a drift to get them out and made a nifty press to put them back. measuring tools to nail the location. Brazing the collars where they sit not so difficult but I do lots of brazing, have the tools and materials, etc. It is not a fillet braze, the material needs to bleed into the joint, which is why you can't easily see it if done right. But this requires that joint to be silly clean and prepped and THAT in turn may require pulling the tubes and using an ultrasonic on the joint. Might get them in one without pulling, depends on the cleaner. Sending them off to an airhead shop to have stainless tubes installed correctly is simplest. The depth will be right, nice tubes, never rust, etc.

    getting the jugs on the correct sides may help (SMACK!) but if the collars are free to float the issue will return. I have seen things with gobbed on PC7 or hose clamps to keep the collars in place.
    #29
  10. nevada72

    nevada72 Milwaukeeish

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    The collars seem really secure. I had the cylinders honed and cleaned up by a local pro (Glen Bishop/Thoroughbred). He also did the heads. He's pretty good and I wonder if maybe he brazed them. I don't know what the tubes are made of, assuming steel. They have been painted to match the cylinders. I can't see him doing that and not making them right. I'll give him a call and ask.
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  11. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    a pro would list the cost of the brazing on the invoice. pro's don't work for free. I would expect an advance consultation on the charges too.

    the original tubes were steel and rusted when the paint wore off. the rust would get on the tube where it passes through the seal ensuring lekage. then the tube was toast. Thus the market for stainless tubes.
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  12. bmwrench

    bmwrench Long timer Supporter

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    The cylinders are symmetrical.

    /5 and /6 through 1975 came with an aluminum base gasket, which, IIRC, are ,25mm thick. The compression lowering shim/gasket is .50 mm thick, again IIRC.

    The pushrod seals need to be slightly compressed when the cylinder seats against the case. The base of the collar should be 88-90mm from the bottom of the fin from which they protrude.
    #32
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  13. nevada72

    nevada72 Milwaukeeish

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    I get it. But we keep it pretty informal. I ask him to fix it and he does. We don't beat each other up on price. The cylinders that he honed came back looking like new (pic above). I just can't see him spending the time to paint the tubes but not make sure they are going to work properly. But I don't know that for sure.

    Great info - thanks again! I'll measure tomorrow. I'll also scrub off some paint and see if I can see brazing.
    #33
  14. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    think scratch with a dental pick right at the joint and look for non-steel.
    #34
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  15. nevada72

    nevada72 Milwaukeeish

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    Perfect - thanks for the tip.
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  16. nmalozzi

    nmalozzi airheaded

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    I certainly don’t doubt you here. More or less curious. If they are symmetrical why does the head gasket slightly cover the pushrod tube holes if installed backwards? Or is that just true for later models?
    #36
  17. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    the tubes are offset w/ respect to the cyl. bore. look at the relationship of the two ends of each rocker to see why. the PR end of the rocker is offset from the valve end of the rocker.
    #37
  18. nmalozzi

    nmalozzi airheaded

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    Yea, that was my understanding. I think Wrench and I are just using different terms. Semantics is a bitch. Given his knowledge, I’m sure my verbiage is wrong, and the problem here ha!
    #38
  19. nevada72

    nevada72 Milwaukeeish

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    Regardless of it being symmetrical, there's no way I was going to leave it backwards. I can see being ostracized from the Airhead community should someone happen to check the orientation at a get together. I was mildly chastised for not having the flat washers under the nuts holding the valve covers on when I first got the bike. "I bought it like that" was no excuse.


    :D
    #39
  20. melville

    melville Long timer

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    FTFY :D :D :D
    #40
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