Old Guys with heavy bikes

Discussion in 'Dakar champion (950/990)' started by ktmrandy, Jul 13, 2015.

  1. syzygy9

    syzygy9 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Oddometer:
    370
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    I meant a 'ratchet strap on a stick' like the one kenstone showed above. Riding the great aussie outback I am very well aware of the lack of trees, the area shown in that photo was a like a damn rain-forest compared to some other areas I had passed through.

    kenstone, I had seen that one and that was a great inspiration.

    On the same trip (where my above 'sand nap' photo was taken) one of the guys on a DR650 had a ratchet strap tying down a 'swag' and I saw how much leverage they could apply. Researching it seems they can do about 10:1, so with an even moderate handle length I figured it should work as a winch so I just need some elevation . . . you have shown a small pole can work. Your post and the 'dustriders' version (a bit too heavy and bulky) convinced me, so I will make one!
  2. syzygy9

    syzygy9 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Oddometer:
    370
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Head, great post and you are correct, there is no single answer to getting a big bike up.

    The solution is manifold and includes;
    • not carrying too much crap (over time you learn to travel lighter and lighter),
    • learning to ride better (not falling over as much certainly helps, experience in sand has improved my sand riding tremendously),
    • it might mean a bike better suited to what you do (no point owning GS1200 if 90% of your riding is single track or deep sand),
    • learning and practicing proper lifting techniques (including taking your time),
    • keeping your fitness level up!

    However, sometimes you just can't get the bike up. When this happened to me for the first time it was quite a shock as I had always managed to get the bike up previously. As I occasionally travel on my own, I need a foolproof method of getting the bike up without assistance.
  3. kenstone

    kenstone worn out

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,858
    Location:
    Boysee
    Not as puzzling to me, as most posting pics of dirt naps show BIG bikes sleeping in sand on relatively flat ground, with big panniers holding the bike at about a 45 degree angle.

    I don't have panniers or that big of a bike, with most of my dirt naps happening on a side slope, falling to the low side, with no place to put a foot, ending with handlebar end into the dirt.
    For me, speed rarely has anything to do with it, more like stopping in the wrong place, so slowing down wouldn't change much.

    Sure, riding terrain that's too challenging or for too long could lead to more than one dirt nap, and more pick-ups than you have trained/planned for, but any of that is remedied by an assessment of all relative elements like, bike, ability, terrain, pace, and a lot of other things.
    There is no simple answer,
    jmo
    :lol3
  4. thunderkat59

    thunderkat59 Old cooter on a slow scooter

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2011
    Oddometer:
    1,313
    Location:
    ♘ Louisville, KY ♘
    A ratchet strap?!?!? Great idea!! Im 56 and not sure if I could lift my r1100rs. I am praying to a variety of deities hoping I never have to :(
  5. KTM Mike

    KTM Mike Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,505
    Location:
    Atlanta, Michigan
    You identified the simple answer:

    any of that is remedied by an assessment of all relative elements like, bike, ability, terrain, pace,

    The road block is often ego....not being willing to be honest to yourself on real ability, not being willing to go slow enough to KNOW you wont drop it, not being patient enough to find that right spot to park etc. I certainly have failed in that regard many times!
  6. oldfuddy

    oldfuddy Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Oddometer:
    5,002
    Location:
    SouthWest (AZ)
    That makes sense. You stated winch in the post, but yes, ratchet strap much better there. Your second quote from me is not from me.
  7. syzygy9

    syzygy9 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Oddometer:
    370
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    I today went out a bought a small, light, cheap'ish (A$20), medium duty ratchet strap (600kg 'lashing" ability which doesn't tell you how much tension you can apply) but figured it was worth a shot. Looped this thing around a rafter and sat in it and EASILY lifted my 85kg weight. The only problem is that the strap can only loop a certain amount of times around the drum before jamming up, in this case it equates to a pull of around 50cm (20 inches for you yanks) so not sure if this would be enough. I wrapped some 4mm cord instead of the strap and this gives meters of pull before it fills up the ratchet drum and jams and so this could work.
  8. hugemoth

    hugemoth Big Brother is watching you!

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,460
    Location:
    RESIST!
    Last year was the first time in my nearly 50 years of riding that I could not pick up my touring bike after I dropped it while holding it vertical to check the oil. The bike is a rather top heavy 560 lbs empty but was full of fuel and loaded with gear. After struggling for a while I managed to right it after removing all the gear I could reach but my back hurt for 2 days. Now I'm VERY careful not do drop it and have started riding one of my smaller bikes when I don't need the high speed. For remote trail riding I really prefer my 170 lb little bike because I can pick it up even on the down hill side of a steep slope. I'm 62 years old.
  9. rotaryracer

    rotaryracer Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,208
    Location:
    Webster, NY
    Hi guys - Rider Magazine reviewed the Dustriders Motorcycle Hoist in their November 2015 issue (on newsstands now!) and came away suitably impressed. :D This is a tool that you hope you never have to remove from the bag, but if you do, it can literally be a lifesaver. The Y-brace helps to disperse the load when lifting the bike and provide more stability on uneven surfaces (at the expense of a slightly larger packing size versus some of the DIY solutions shown), and the hoist is rated to lift 775 pounds with no issues. The inventor of the hoist had a bad motorcycle accident that caused significant issues with his back that would prevent him from lifting his bike if it went down. Instead of giving up on the solo rides on rough terrain that he enjoyed, he designed the Dustriders hoist as the solution.

    I'm happy to answer any questions in the Vendor thread here, or you can email or call me at (585) 310-ADVM.

    Thanks!


    [​IMG]
  10. syzygy9

    syzygy9 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Oddometer:
    370
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Great idea, but about 4kgs too heavy.

    Here's a challenge - build something that can get a bike up to the point it can manhandled upright and weighs ~1kg. You will be able to retire to the Bahamas with all of the sales!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    kenstone likes this.
  11. unaweep

    unaweep Uses lotsa band-aids

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Oddometer:
    40,791
    Location:
    Western Colorado
    How about 2.25 kg?

    http://powderjack.com/store/

    I think I may buy one of these. Seems to be about 1/2 the weight of some other models.
  12. MooseMagnet

    MooseMagnet Montana

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Oddometer:
    14
    Location:
    Missoula, Montana
    Train with weights and stretch. Fitness matters.
    THEONE2 likes this.
  13. syzygy9

    syzygy9 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Oddometer:
    370
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Reviving a very old thread, I finally bit the bullet, sold my beloved ‘210kg dry’ KTM 990 and bought a 138kg DRZ400E (Australia model).

    This bike still handles the tar okay, but for the sandy single track adv riding we mostly do, it is a revelation.

    For me the turning point was dropping the fully laden 990 on slow sandy track and for the first time couldn’t pick it up. Combined with the work required to manhandle the beast through sand, finally convinced me it was time to go to something smaller, lighter, less powerful and simpler to work on.

    I will always miss the 990 but the old adage of riding a ‘slow bike fast is more fun than riding a fast bike slow’ does apply. My dirt skill levels were never going to get close to the capabilities of this bike.
    my6 and braaap! like this.
  14. JoeMongo

    JoeMongo ¿Por dónde? Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    896
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, not exactly dirt moto heaven
    Yeah, I'm looking at a lighter bike as well, for when I am riding alone on loose and/or steep dirt.

    Last weekend I was riding alone in the Pozo OHV area of the Los Padres National Forest of California when I dropped my 990 in a rut in loose dirt amid slabs of stone.

    I'm almost 60. I lift weights in a gym 3 or 4 times a week. I ride road bicycles and MTBs multiple times a week. I'm a member of the Mountain Rescue Association and a California county Search & Rescue team and am used to hiking 12 to 15 miles a day at high altitude, carrying a 50 pound pack. When I ride alone, I usually carry a "set of fours" pulley system that can go as high as a 10:1 mechanical advantage if I need it, and I have a close enough anchor, in the right location, yada, yada, . . . This time I was riding with friends, but we got separated and I rode a different route back out. I wasn't carrying my rope and pulley system.

    I couldn't even budge my 990 since it had no bags and was lying flat on the steeply sloped hill. It sucked. I was trying to figure out where my inReach text messages should go to and how to let my buddies know where I was, knowing that they probably wouldn't be able to find me until the next day. I hadn't seen another human in 3 or 4 hours. Nobody was going to wander by and help me.

    It was going to be very embarrassing with my SAR team if I had to get rescued. I kept trying to figure a way out.

    I emptied everything out of my Coyote bags and started digging holes with my bare hands underneath both wheels. I put the bike in gear so it wouldn't roll downhill (much) if I was able to lift it. I put the side stand down since it was on it's right side. I spent a very long time and finally dragged it a few inches up a slab of rock until the wheel bottoms were above ground by at least four or five inches above the holes I had dug.

    Then I was able to do the reverse lift to get the wheels down into the holes and the bike up to at least 30 degrees or so. That got the bike is a position where I could lift the fat basturd up to vertical and onto the side stand.

    It took me 90 minutes to get the bike up from it's dirt nap and then backed down the hill to a flattish spot so I could turn it around and reload it. I learned a number of obvious lessons, and will try harder to prevent this from happening again.

    I started looking at 690 Enduro Rs today. There may be one in my future. Heck, Xmas is coming up.
    j.
    knobbyjoe, bomose and my6 like this.
  15. Mr Head

    Mr Head Adventure Hippie Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Oddometer:
    14,712
    Location:
    San Clemente, CA
    My last post in this thread was almost five years ago. I'm leaning into 67 this next year. I've been retired now for almost three years.
    I'm still riding the 990R, but not nearly as much as I used to on a regular basis.
    Now, my travel is more of a once or twice per year thing. Last trip I dropped the bike after stalling it. On pavement in a deserted neighborhood, (Saturday soccer) and managed to pick the bike up alone. Not without spinning it a bit on its side on the tarmac. Not a cosmetically good approach. I'd removed the lift loops I normally have on the pannier racks so handholding points were few and far between.

    I'll be finding those climbing equipment loops today as I sort through gear in the garage and putting them back on the bike.
    At least when I dropped it, the bike was fully loaded, but with about three gallons of fuel and it was very hot. Enough, I stopped, pulled my jacket and helmet off along with the stuff strapped on the seat and lifted the bike.

    I plan on riding this bike until I can no longer climb on it. Then I'll probably give it away to charity as it will have too many miles to bother with the chatter I'd have to endure while attempting to sell it.

    But, I am still downsizing equipment and lightning the load. Got a new lighter bicycle packing two man tent. Not as warm as the other tent, but much smaller. Everything can fit inside the 38L Zega Pro's. My clothes can go into a 20L tail pack.

    [​IMG]

    Another aspect to this is exercise and physical conditioning. I ride a bicycle to keep my heart and lungs fit as well as help with balance. I'm told that after the new medical insurance kicks in, I'm to begin going to a gym with my wife. It's a half mile walk.
    Another good thing to do is walk. That is also good for balance.

    Another great thing to do is take a riding school specific to adventure training. Jimmy Lewis does this as do many other great schools around the world.
    Good training will be some of the best money and time ever invested in motorcycling.
    And of course practice.

    I may still lower the big and far too tall 990R.
  16. bomose

    bomose Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Oddometer:
    3,629
    Location:
    Dixie
    I guess we should all start taking walking shoes in case we have to walk out of our predicaments.
    Mr Head likes this.
  17. syzygy9

    syzygy9 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Oddometer:
    370
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    The answer is to get a lighter bike.

    Although it was quite a shock going from a 100bhp KTM990 to a 40bhp Suzuki DRZ400, the lightweight and simplicity are a revelation. And for a ‘cheap’ bike they are surprisingly competent.
  18. bomose

    bomose Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Oddometer:
    3,629
    Location:
    Dixie
    I have a DR 650. I still enjoy long trips on the 990, and take my wife often on dirt roads. The DR is not conducive to that. We don't do difficult roads anymore although the River Road in Big Bend had some surprises.
    P1070912.JPG IMG_5774.JPG
    knobbyjoe, Mr Head and Bonnie & Clyde like this.
  19. Gmc28

    Gmc28 Gmower

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Oddometer:
    188
    Location:
    Dirt Road Oregon
    Thats the scenario we worry about. And I guess the title of the thread, and I’m there with u. U don’t need to be old to have trouble with the size of these liter adv bikes, But getting older does add to the issue...
    The salt in the wound for me that comes with some age is the “maturity” to realize what a goat-rope it’ll be to get that big bike back on its feet, which in turn gets into my head, and shows itself as an uptight, not-fun riding style. I gotta get the concern of dumping the bike out of my head.
    My answer was to put cheaper, lighter side cases on, for starters. Lighter... speaks for itself. Cheaper, well sort of the same, it removes the give-a-shit factor from laying it down. Equals getting back to a little more proper, natural riding style. Adding the gadgetry to help lift the bike if it falls is also more of a psychological bandaid, given the serious limitations with those gadgets, but not a bad thing for to have imo.
    But I agree that ultimately the lighter bike is the ticket, though with the limitations that brings. My multistrada Enduro is way too heavy, and top heavy, for me to enjoy it off road, but is a fantastic road bike. The 990 is my go-to for “adv” off road, as coming off the multi makes the 990 seem so much more light & comfortable off road. and my old (and loved) DR350 (441) is kept for dirt.
    bomose likes this.
  20. syzygy9

    syzygy9 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Oddometer:
    370
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    I think we have all been misled with the fantasy of liter+ class ‘adventure’ bikes. In my view these are road bikes that can handle some well formed dirt roads. I know that there are some that can muscle these things around single tracks, but most of us average punters struggle. I have seen many (Aussie) YouTube videos and have enough personal experience (on a relatively ‘lightweight’ KTM 990) of your average Joe going over the handlebars of his big heavy adv bike on a track that would be a doddle on something a lot smaller.
    For me the Africa Twins, KTM 990/1090/1190, Yamaha Tenere are much more road bikes than they are dirt bikes.
    bomose likes this.