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OMG!!! Ponies!!!

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by GotMojo, May 21, 2019.

  1. Bueller

    Bueller Cashin? Super Supporter

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    I thought about boring as well. Not so sure it would need it. The factory bearings were not bored or honed. Any misalignment of the case bores themselves would have likely been there since the cases were machined. I don’t know what the main bearing oil clearance spec is, but i would think matching the bearing OD and ID of the originals would preserve alignment provided they were seated straight, and to the exact same depth as the originals.

    a look at the catalog from King bearings tells me it could absolutely be matched up.
    villageidiot likes this.
  2. Dan V.

    Dan V. Been here awhile

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    I'll be sure to be in touch with you Greg, if I ever need work on the GTS i'm "gonna get" :-)
    Bueller likes this.
  3. Wentwest

    Wentwest How's that work?

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    I'd be looking for an auto machine shop. Talking to a Harley custom shop mechanic should give you some tips toward the machine shop that will dare to work on motorcycles. I asked at a shop that mostly specializes in old Honda bikes and the owner told me the name of a shop he uses sometimes. Take the cases in, show them the problem, and see if they are willing to try pressing them out and pressing in new ones once you find the right replacements. With a good press setup a shop can do it in minutes.
  4. villageidiot

    villageidiot Long timer Supporter

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    Q&E in Anaheim should probably be able to sort that out for ya
  5. GotMojo

    GotMojo Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Oddometer:
    831
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Meanwhile, back in the real world...

    Progress slowly creeps along.

    IMG_20191019_111316033.jpg

    Transmission bearings IN courtesy of Eureka Bearing Supply. Down the street from me and reasonably priced. No clue as to the origin or grade. Don't care. They spin like buttah now!

    Once again the Motion Pro Bearing Kit has proved indispensable. Very glad I splurged for this.

    As of 8am this morning I had no clue as to what top end would be getting installed.

    I hemmed.

    I hawed.

    I procrastinated a bit with the above mentioned bearings.

    Should I go back to the stock stuff that was working just fine before I tore into this project?
    "Worked Fine" being a subjective term when the parts have 44k miles on them.

    Should I install the lower miled SC250 top end? It had shown some signs of wear but didn't look too bad.

    Should I reinstall the Malossi setup and risk damaging it if things went south, leaving me without an upgrade path for my hopefully-by-next-year-yellow-vespa?

    Decisions, decisions...

    Let's look at what we have to work with, no?

    Original:

    IMG_20191019_083140248.jpg
    Are those oil scrapers missing a couple of inches?

    Yup. WTF??

    Next!

    SC250
    IMG_20191019_083128083.jpg
    Is that top edge banged up and looking like a ticking time bomb?

    Yup.

    Next!

    Wait, there's no next.

    IMG_20191019_083151298.jpg

    Il Malossino it is then. Thank goodness I had already ordered the correct gaskets!

    IMG_20191019_085317362.jpg

    Hope this works. Cross your fingers!

    IMG_20191019_102728502.jpg

    In summary, we're right back where we were this time last year.

    Sigh.

    It was considerably easier putting it back together this time around, so there's that small consolation.
    Pezz_gs, Rusty J and villageidiot like this.
  6. GotMojo

    GotMojo Been here awhile

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    Next up, main seal installation.

    Everything would have gone according to plan EXCEPT...

    the GF decided that today would be a great one for a yard sale followed by a housewarming party for a friend.

    As you can see, I managed to put the engine back together in between carrying crap outside and trying not to bitchslap every soccer mom that was trying to haggle everything down to a quarter. Or less. :rad

    But I missed my opportunity to swing by Massimo's today. It requires a special tool and I'm opting out of fighting to install it 3 times.

    IMG_20191019_102733168.jpg

    The seal covers the cavity that contains the timing and oil chains/sprockets.

    So very close now...
  7. minimac

    minimac Long timer

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    I'm glad to see you didn't get in a rush to button it up.
  8. Bueller

    Bueller Cashin? Super Supporter

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  9. GotMojo

    GotMojo Been here awhile

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    Jan 10, 2016
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    Orange County, CA
    6-ways-to-practice-delayed-gratification-today.png
    Trucker jay and oneodd1 like this.
  10. GotMojo

    GotMojo Been here awhile

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    Today was going to be the The Day.

    It's been long enough and I was hoping to get stinky pinky put back together and call it a day.

    It started off well enough.

    I got up in time.
    I swung by 85c for pastries.

    85c0-17a4c1105056a36_17a4c29c-5056-a36a-0bf538e900c93d5e.png

    Not my tray but it might as well have been. I got a shit-ton of stuff for a full weekend's worth of oinking out.

    Then I swung by Massimo's Vespa Shop hoping that he'd not only have a timing seal cover but would also be able to install it lickety split.

    All hope was dashed when I rolled up and saw a sign that said:

    We Are CLOSED
    Sorry for the inconvenience.
    Will reopen on NOV 18


    :ace:baldy

    So I did the only rational thing.

    I went home, ordered the seal and the very expensive installation tool. I then sat down on the couch and proceeded to eat almost all of the pastries while binge watching Grand Designs.

    grand-designs.jpg

    It's a glorious thing that show. I especially love it when the whole build just falls apart. Very satisfying!

    AF1 is has to get the goods from the motherland so it'll be another week or two before anything significant happens.
    Rusty J, Sl0rider and beRto. like this.
  11. GotMojo

    GotMojo Been here awhile

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    Ok, I lied. I did work on the bike tonight.

    I felt so disgusted with myself for sitting on the couch all day that I had no choice but go outside and do *something*.

    So, I rebuilt a water pump.

    Yes, again.

    I also bolted the engine back onto the frame, but the water pump angle is more interesting...

    I thought I felt a notch in the bearings when I played with them and had picked up a set just in case at Eureka. It was a 1-hour, 'might as well', feel-good project kind of thing. You know, to try and get some sort of momentum going.

    I have to say, this was by far the easiest time. I think I finally got the hang of it!

    Normally I wouldn't note something like this but somebody was having a similar issue over on MV. Basically their interference fit wasn't interfering. I suspect he tried to save $10 just like I did and bought it from the same place.

    Having been recently promoted to Expert du Ínternet, I felt like I needed to investigate.

    Here's what I found:

    Uniform gray shaft is from ScooterWest and should be OEM.

    Dark/Shiny one is the 'defective' one.

    IMG_20191026_203422886.jpg
    IMG_20191026_203436719.jpg

    Note the shape and machining are different. There bad shaft seems to have had a hair of material removed at the end. It also lacks a hole.

    My theory is that the dark one is either machined to a different tolerance/spec and/or the pin is used by the OEM tool to peen the end and ensure a nice tight fit. I've done this 4 times now and the light gray ones have worked without any issue. The other one, 100% failure rate (sample size = 1).

    Fortunately the other guy caught it before he buttoned it back up. It would have been catastrophic otherwise.

    What really ticks me off is the vendor that *I* purchased it from went on that thread to berate DIY guys for 'doing it wrong'. He does this a lot. To him I say:

    <rant>HEY! Don't sell parts to the masses over the internet if you don't want non-professionals to install them, dumbass!</rant>

    Once again I have to applaud Robot and the SW guys for catering to people like me with their videos and overall helpfulness. A certain someone could learn a few things from them.
    sro99, villageidiot and Rusty J like this.
  12. Bueller

    Bueller Cashin? Super Supporter

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    I read that over on MV as well. I have purchased some stuff from that vendor in the past and was disappointed with his responses.
    sro99 likes this.
  13. sro99

    sro99 one odd owl

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    Hey that's me! I'm the guy on the other site with the water pump shaft problem.

    If I would have known the kit from ScooterPartsCo was "aftermarket" I wouldn't have ordered it to save $10. But if you look at the description on their website it says "kit components are made using OEM parts".

    They fooled me! But now I know. I just bought my first Vespa in August so I'm still learning. Af1, ScooterWest and VespaTorontoWest are the places to get parts if I want OEM.

    <my rant> Don't advertise parts as OEM and send "aftermarket" parts, ripoff artist and liar! <end rant>
    The Virginian likes this.
  14. sro99

    sro99 one odd owl

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    Here's their description...

    Screenshot_20191027-123147.png
    The Virginian likes this.
  15. villageidiot

    villageidiot Long timer Supporter

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    AE4CF3DF-7A49-478B-A2DA-6C003B646A8F.jpeg

    Circled in red says it all!
    sro99 likes this.
  16. GotMojo

    GotMojo Been here awhile

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    I kinda, sorta, just a little bit, feel bad in calling him out. To his credit he's cheaper for a lot of items and he's shipped everything promptly. All shipments have been well packed and nothing has been missing. The only issue I've ever had was with the water pump kit. I had assumed that it was operator error (it was my first) and quickly moved on to more pressing matters.

    I would still order stuff from them for stuff I know will be OEM or if it's strictly aftermarket.
  17. GotMojo

    GotMojo Been here awhile

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    Ha! I knew it. You couldn't resist the $10 savings. :)

    Read it again. It's not OEM.

    BTW, be VERY careful installing the water seal. I've done it a few different ways and ended up 3d printing (or rather, having the mech guys at work 3d print me) a tool. You can do it with sockets & washers, just make sure that you press the outside and inside parts together otherwise you'll destroy it.
    sro99 likes this.
  18. sro99

    sro99 one odd owl

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    It wasn't my plan to call him out but I realized after starting that thread on MV that I received aftermarket parts.

    Now, back to your ponies. :D
  19. sro99

    sro99 one odd owl

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    A 1" socket and 6 washers seems to work ok.

    110.jpg
  20. Bueller

    Bueller Cashin? Super Supporter

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    I don’t see any reason to feel bad about it. He broke one of the rules of customer service. Even if the customer may be wrong, calling them out on the internet will never end well for the vendor.