Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'The Garage' started by motosaint, Jul 16, 2007.
Thanks for the heads-up. I think you should post this in the 'Deals' area...
But seriously folks...it's difficult to justify the Snap On prices, but I'm still using the boxes and tools I bought in the '70s. Hell, I'm still using my dad's Snap On stuff from the '40s ! The stuff really does hold up better. I've never had a problem with a warranty issue. Some of the truck guys can be a bit abrupt, but I'm a consumer now, not a professional wrench, so I know I'm taking up their time. I have had truck guys agree to come to my house if I give 'em enough notice....it really is like a rolling crack house.
The online store has worked well for me..can't complain.
Craftsman has some good deals and I use their stuff as well, but if I want something I can use and abuse and pass to my kids, I'll choose Snap On.
Let's not forget Hazet's German brother Stahlwille... real nice too.
I dunno......I have Craftsman stuff that came from both my father and grandfather as well. The older sockets are the ones I prefer when the going gets tough. They're bombproof. Just today I snapped a 3/4", grade 8 bolt using a 30+ year old, 1/2" drive breaker bar and socket with a 6' cheater bar. If it broke, Craftsman would have taken it back, no questions. The Snap guy would have just laughed at me.
I'll concede that SO stuff is better and has a better feel to it, but their stuff costs 4x as much and they don't honor the warranty like Craftsman. The money isn't the deal breaker for me, it's the warranty thing.
I don't think I'm enough of a 'wrench' to justify SO and I think I'll just upgrade as needed. My brother used Craftsman to work on passenger jets and most of the mechanics did as well.. So if it's good enough for them....
With better than 40k worth of tools in my shop and garage, that's exactly how I feel. Good luck and check out those specials. They come up about every other month.
News to me. I just swapped-out all my dearly-departed father's old rusty SO wrenches for brand-new without even so much as a flinch from the SnapOn guy.
Any SnapOn dealer can recognize tool abuse in a second. If you have to use a 6-footer pipe or something, then you don't have the right tool for the job.I've used SnapOn tools professionally for years, and never had a problem returning even a screwdriver with a chipped tip, but if I tried to pass off something totally dubious like that, then he'd probably laugh at me too.
Kobalt tools from Lowes are made in a former Snap On plant in TN. I think that Husky is made by Stanley and is sold at Home Depot.
If the tool hasn't been abused or misused it WILL be repaired or replaced under warranty...EVERY TIME! Some Snap-On lines do NOT carry the lifetime warranty, know what you're buying and how it should be properly used. A six foot cheater bar on the handle of a 1/2" breaker bar is a good example of misuse, no company should warranty any damage as a result of this stupidity. As stated before, if a company is buying cheaply produced off shore products there's a huge profit margin. They can afford to take some losses on abusive warranty. Something else to consider, a store like Sears carries many product lines so the tool portion might be a loss leader. It's not their only business and an unprofitable or low profit tool line may be offset by a very profitable clothing line, or garden line, etc.
Snap-On dealers are independent contractors licensed to sell Snap-On tools under a franchise agreement. As in any other business you'll find good business owners as well as bad ones. A good dealer will offer advice, provide information on new tool releases, promote specials, repair or replace under warranty programs, and visit your business once a week like clockwork...he's selling more than tools, he's providing a valuable service designed to increase efficiency and maximize profits for his customers. There is a difference in tool quality, just ask the guys who make their living with them. For a back yard mechanic or typical homeowner the cost may not offset the benefit, you'll have to make that determination for yourself.
In the past 10 years Snap-On has undergone changes in their business operations just like every other company having to answer to investors, to cut operating costs they've closed warehouses and deleted most "field manager" positions. I was a dealer for seven years, lack of proper corporate support for their dealer network was one of the most important reasons for my departure. I may disagree with corporate policy but I still believe in their product, Snap-On is still the tool of choice for me.
To answer the original post most S/O routes are serviced on a weekly basis, same day and approximately the same time. Contact a business close by and ask when their dealer stops by. Most tool dealers will answer questions and help with purchases, some of my best sales were the result of relationships formed with walk-on customers. You take care of them and they take care of you!
When you have a $175/hr machine broken down in the field, you use what you have to so it gets up and running asap. I didn't have a torch on hand to cut the locked up nut and bolt so I do what I have to do to stay in business, snap the bolt. Even if I had to replace the breaker out of pocket, I would still abuse it to get back in production. Period.
The Sears warranty does not exclude abuse AFAIK, it just says they will replace it if it fails to perform to your satisfaction. If they have the markup to allow that generous return policy, SO can surely take back a beat up tool at 4x the price. I stand by my one in ten items being covered under warranty. That's been my experience, but as you pointed out, each guy runs his own truck. Maybe I ran into a few bad apples, but after the third bad dealer I gave up on them.
How would rust not be considered abuse? Leaving a tool to rust is just as abusive as pushing it beyond it's intended pourpose IMHO.
Sorry to hear about your Dad
Thanks for the correction. I knew it was something like that.
Kobalt was the brand my brother purchased.
As a former Mac man, I had great sucess with private consumer walk-ons.
Sometimes I would be driving my Mac truck and a car would pull along side me and wave a ratchet, screwdriver, or scream out the window at me. LOL
However I preferred when I had one call me on the phone and ask me when I was going to be somewhere, or they would already be waiting for me at one of my ususal and timely weekly stops.
From a Mac man's point of view the consumer sale was easy, and nice because it was cash or credit card, not an extended line of credit from me like all my other customers. In fact, I would doubt that it would be easy to find a Tool truck that would extend credit to a private consumer. Because of this, the cash customer typically got 10-15% discount.
You have to justify to yourself the value of the tool. There are sometimes when a cheap Harbor Freight special will do exactly the same goal. However, I feel that if it is an item that is used frequently, or in an environment where someones paycheck depends on it, you need a quality item. Having the right tool for a job will save time, money, and busted knuckles.
As far as the toolboxes are concerned, the highline MAC, Matco, and Snapon boxes are all good. I have looked at lots of boxes, pulled drawers on every box I ever touch, from every big box store, auto store, Warehouse store, Harbor Freight, etc., and have found some that come close and are great values for the money, but they do not equal the the pro ones.
As said above, if you like tools and chrome, it is a rolling Crack Shack. I loved driving around the biggest toolbox in town!
Chris is wise beyond his years. Perfect. Yes, at 4x the price, they can take return on a tool once in a while. At 4x, yes they can.
I've had good luck with Matco - bought a 1/2 inch torque wrench on eBay. More than Craftsman, less than Snap On.
I went to Sears today to checkout their tools... Man, it's amazing! My happiness came when I found that I won't have to spend a crazy amount of money to get the tools I need. A couple of hundred dollars ought to do it. Thank goodness. The big purchase will be toolbox... Now that's expensive :-( All of this is moot though if my brother sells me HIS equipment and a discount ;-)
I'll probably still get some Snap-On tools. Their screwdrivers rock! I went around the tool department looking for a set of Craftsman that were comparable. None.
Today, I helped a friend run his car show and spoke to a pretty hardcore car 'wrench'. Same thing: He's a Craftsman guy and buys SOME thing from Snap-On. He gets his SO equipment at a HUGE discount since he works for a government organization. He too, had issues replacing broken tools with SO. He was shocked when he got a song and dance from his vendor. Then he calls up the regional office and they had someone else replace his tool. He figured his usual guy must have gotten an earful from the regional office. AND he bought his stainless steel toolbox and Costco too! He couldn't say enough good things about that box... Guess I'll have to check it out too ;-)
I have a shed full of cheap tools that do the job for a fraction of the price, but a few years ago I bought a snap on ratchet screwdriver set with 14 bits.
It is really amazing when friends have butchered a screw trying loosen it and I say 'try with this', it nearly always works. I am still amazed at how good it is every time I use it and if I ever lost it I would buy another even at the amazing price.
Yeah, I've used cheap and expensive tools and there is a difference for sure. Especially the more screwed up the piece you're trying to use it on.
Like I said... I know a good deal of hardcore mechanics and many of them areq quite content with the Craftsman toolset. Though, they do appreciate the quality and sometimes extra features of Snap-On.
SPEED, QUALITY, PRICE, PICK ANY TWO.
Ever been working on something and have a wrench slip off a bolt and rip your knuckles open? Ever been working underneath a car and have a wrench fall off a bolt and hit you in the eye?
Snap-On tools do that less. It's called "tolerances" You can put a Snap-On box end wrench on a bolt and it will stay there until you take it off. They also have a patented design, "posi-drive" IIRC, that has radiused corners so the flats of the sockets, wrenches, etc make contact with the flat of the bolt and not the corners. They work tons better and don't "round" bolts off.
If you used one for a while you would. I have a couple of ~$1200 Lista tool boxes and you can use the drawers as ladders. Not to mention the drawers work as well empty as they do with 75 lbs of tools in them.
OTOH, if you don't need or want a tool box like that, a $400 craftsman is fine, and will probably last you your whole life.
You are obviously a serious 'wrench' and using a tool with higher tolerances would be beneficial as I stated in an earlier post. I completely agree with you.
But for a guy with 2 - 3 bikes, Craftsman will probably do just fine.
There should be a 'tool fetish' sticky here....
I am not a wrench, just a shade tree mechanic.
Most of my tools are Craftsman and I have had them for several years. I have had their ratchets fail on me over the years and it used to be when you took a ratchet into the store, they went to the shelf and got you a new one.
Not anymore, I took a 1/2 drive ratchet (it not stay engaged) in a month or so ago and the guy to it to the back and put a rebuild kit in it. It was worse than it was when I took it in. I pitched a fit and he said that he could not give me a new one (policy), so I asked for my money back. After much arguing I did get the credit back.
I have a 3/8 drive that is doing the same thing and haven't taken it back becase I don't want to go through the hassle.
This is not a good sign for Craftsman.