OT- Any pilots in Denver?

Discussion in 'The Rockies – It's all downhill from here...' started by Bad Wolf, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. youngan

    youngan -------

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    When I got my private 24 years ago, spins were (recently) no longer required, and were already being discouraged. However, my instructor still thought they were important, so we did them.
  2. PA Slammer

    PA Slammer I hate titles...

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    With the FAA’s emphasis on upset recover training, I think we’ll see more stall/spin type training in the near future.
  3. ROAD DAMAGE

    ROAD DAMAGE Long timer Supporter

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    I'm thinking that there may be several non-pilots (other than me!) that are following this thread.

    I found this on YouTube and thought it appropriate and that it might contribute to the content here.



    RD
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  4. Bad Wolf

    Bad Wolf High functioning sociopath

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    FAA and the flight school doesn't encourage spin training for private pilot....but I believe it is required now for Commercial Pilot.


    Or recommended.
  5. youngan

    youngan -------

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    Unless it’s changed recently, I believe spin training is only required during initial CFI rating; not commercial.
  6. Bad Wolf

    Bad Wolf High functioning sociopath

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    I'll inquire Tuesday and let everyone know. My actual fly time has been canceled, my plane is having its 100 hour and the other Grumman is already booked.
  7. AviatorTroy

    AviatorTroy Following my front fender

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    That’s the way it was when I learned too, but most flight instructors still understood the importance.

    Funny thing about the FAAs hot button issues, in the 60s spin training was emphasized, then through the 80s and 90s we were not to worry about it because a properly trained pilot could never possibly depart controlled flight. Now most private companies and even airlines are including upset training in their training program because it is a life saver.
  8. Bad Wolf

    Bad Wolf High functioning sociopath

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    Mostly panic wipes your brain. I think something as simple as an instructor cutting the engine would help pilots get passed the sudden "oh shit" brain freeze moments to actual thought processes to figure out what happened and how to correct it. Alsp helps new pilots not slip into panic and understand we have a few seconds to think things through at altitude.

    I'm a pretty calm guy. Been through a shooting and some high speed driving. My first stall in training, my brain went....derp...and then I did the first thing that came to mind, pull the yolk back NOW. It was a good reminder there is no need to freak out in the sky.

    Training just reminds your brain there isn't a need to short out and go full instinct (and if it does, hopefully your reptile brain will know what to do in reaction).
  9. flybigjet

    flybigjet Remove Before Flight Supporter

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    My company's moved towards UPRT training (Upset Prevention and Recovery Training) during the last sim cycle-- it's a new way of looking at upset prevention and recoveries.

    I wasn't completely convinced, but after doing half a dozen sims with it as a fill-in doing both PF and PM duties, I'm more or less a believer.

    There's a lot of technical data to slog through, but it can be summed up with a simple mnemonic--

    U- Either pilot states "Upset", both pilots recognize & confirm aircraft state, PF disconnects autopilot and auto throttles.
    P- Push (to about 0.5g to reduce angle of attack, unload the jet and maximize the efficiency of the control surfaces.)
    R- Roll (while unloaded to a wings-level attitude.)
    T- Thrust (as required to manage energy state).
    S- Stabilize after recovery.

    https://www.iata.org/whatwedo/ops-infra/training-licensing/Documents/gmbp_uprt.pdf
  10. AviatorTroy

    AviatorTroy Following my front fender

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    I read the link to the IATA publication, very good information. Definitely some differences in the way I’ve been taught in unusual attitude recovery. If you changed the word push to pitch it would make perfect sense. But almost every unusual attitude is caused by inadvertent autopilot disconnect and eventual bank/nose down attitude and in that case why would they teach you to push first? Roll wings level and reduce thrust. Other common unusual attitude situation would be wake turbulence recovery so in that situation obviously could wind up almost anywhere.

    There have been several recent encounters in which corporate aircraft in cruise hit wake turbulence from A380s and have lost tens of thousands of feet and in one case even though the airplane eventually landed safely it was a total loss due to overstress. No thanks..
  11. flybigjet

    flybigjet Remove Before Flight Supporter

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    It's admittedly a little different. I should have clarified (I'll go back and fix it in a minute-- it was a long day of MCO-SFO-DEN)-- "Push" to unload and reduce angle of attack-- if you're already nose low, you roll to wings level and then pull for the recovery.

    Oh-- and statistically, I believe nose up stall/approach to stall is by far the most common unusual attitude (think throttles at idle, nose keeps pitching to stay in the sky.)

    Screen Shot 2019-11-04 at 22.28.00.png Screen Shot 2019-11-04 at 22.28.10.png
  12. AviatorTroy

    AviatorTroy Following my front fender

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    Right, in a high automation environment that is true. In the sim they have us do a level off at MDA and don’t increase power, autopilot on, and let it go until the stall to simulate exactly that.
  13. minerbill

    minerbill Emits Methane Supporter

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    Spent 9 hours in the right seat of CJ3 at the end of September. Colorado to Maryland and back. Had a wonderful Pilot to talk with and learned a ton about flying jets. Just got to finish my private! Too old now but I would never see myself working for a scheduled airline. This corporate stuff was interesting with the varied schedules. With the auto pilot there just isn't much to do other than mess with the radio. Of course when the SHTF you have to get it right the first time.

    Bad Wolf.... Good luck with your new career path.
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  14. Bad Wolf

    Bad Wolf High functioning sociopath

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    So, spin training is back in most major flight schools and mandatory for CFI and commercial pilot. Small flight schools still optional for sport and private cert.
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  15. Bad Wolf

    Bad Wolf High functioning sociopath

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    Scheduled to fly today....beautiful morning. Good forecast. Took a nap before flying and woke to IFR conditions.


    Boo.
  16. atokad

    atokad wan⋅der⋅lust

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    1986, wife is 6 month PG with my first kid. I am practicing POS (really just min throttle, not full PO) at 3k AGL, by myself, and as the nose was pitched up, stall horn blaring something went wrong. I kicked a rudder? Wind gust? Who knows but I pitched over sharply to the left (Cessna 152) and did something like a nose down 360 spiral. My eyes lost focus as I pitched around and I couldn't focus on anything but that little voice in my head said, "gotta go down before you can up" and I yelled NO out loud and slammed that yoke into the dash until I head a loud thump and then my little voice said, "well this is it, I am either going down down down, or it will pull back up!" My vision cleared and I thankfully felt the pressure on the yoke as I heard a buzzing noise as the nose started to pull up, I pushed in full throttle and leveled out about 600 feet below where I had stalled. Hey, not bad I thought, I only went 100 feet lower than I was supposed to! Gained some altitude back to 3k, looked for my FBO and flew with no fear, or adrenalin back to the runway and made a nice landing. Parked, shut down checklist, opened the door to get out, and THEN, I fell to the ground, complete jelly and shaking. Had to practically crawl back to my car. Quit flying at that point to see my son be born, didn't (couldn't) tell anyone this story for 2 years! Then I went back and finished the 7 or 8 hrs I had left to get my license.

    I think I was in a spin entry and I was kinda pissed at the system at the time that they let students go out and do that (at only 3k feet) w/o any training or an instructor along and they they didn't teach it in flight, just textbook stuff I'd read about spin recovery. Lucky me? Or I made my own luck? Don't really know, only the big guy up there knows.
  17. Bad Wolf

    Bad Wolf High functioning sociopath

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    Did they ever get the seat cushion back?
  18. Pinky

    Pinky Been here awhile

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    Hey guys been barely following this thread for a while, didnt think it really applied to me living in Texas. But things change and ill be moving to COS area in the spring. Im a pro pilot, flew corporate jets for the last 5 years and just made the switch over to the airlines in April. Looking forward to living in Colorado and riding alot in the summers. Anyway, happy to answer any questions or have some meet ups and talk motos and planes at some point.
  19. Bad Wolf

    Bad Wolf High functioning sociopath

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    Great....another Texan moving here.....



    Just kidding, welcome to CO. Are you going to be based in Springs or how did you come to select there?
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  20. Pinky

    Pinky Been here awhile

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    If it makes you feel any better my family has had a place in Crested Butte since before I was born, so I've been in Colorado a lot of my life. I'm not some yahoo tourist Texan...

    My company has a base at the COS airport and I'm trying to stay away from the big city as much as possible, so the Denver area is out. Hoping to find a place out west of COS in the trees. Ive heard good things about COS, more right leaning and such that aligns more with us. Really we just want to be outside in nature and COS seems like a good place with easy access and not quite of out control as the Denver area yet.