Ouch.

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by atc250r, May 16, 2020.

  1. atc250r

    atc250r Been here awhile

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    Personally I have no connection to this crash, but I got the video and description from another forum I’m on. Thought I’d share here just to remind everyone what can happen.

    Gorgeous day driving up to Sequoia this past Sunday. Don't remember the exact location but between Bakersfield and Sequoia National Park. The bike got into some sand in the shoulder and goes into fence posts. Head smacks post and sends him spinning to the ground. The open-face helmet likely saved his life but he had injury to his chin and mouth that a full-face helmet would have prevented. The arm that hit the post also had a good-sized patch of skin taken off.

    #1
  2. HAL 9000

    HAL 9000 2014 Yamaha FJR1300

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    Good thing he scrubbed off most of the speed while on the shoulder, and before he smacked the post. I bet that same hit at the starting speed would certainly have been fatal.

    I wonder if he was sight-seeing instead of paying attention to the curve. I find myself doing that a lot (looking around while I ride). Which, of course, is partly WHY I ride, but I do worry that I may look at scenery a bit too long and miss something on the road. This is a good reminder.
    #2
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  3. johnnywheels

    johnnywheels Been here awhile Supporter

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    Ouch is right! Hope he’s ok! I don’t think I wold fare too well hitting myself head on a fence post!
    #3
  4. Husky360C

    Husky360C Been here awhile

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    Some people simply have no business riding a motorcycle. The rider in the video is a good example of a person who should not be riding a motorcycle.

    If you think this "could happen to anyone", you are wrong.

    Most riders I know have never had such an "accident" and never will. This is because it is NOT an accident, it is a MISTAKE.
    #4
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  5. draco_1967

    draco_1967 Spoon!

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    Yep. The bike didn't just "get into some sand on the shoulder." The dude rode off the road. There was no slipping that I could see until he is off the tarmac. Crap happens and people make mistakes, but this was completely preventable and isn't in the same category as encountering another car in your lane on a blind curve or a deer running out from the ditch by the road.
    #5
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  6. F150

    F150 Been here awhile

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    Fencepost to the face? Full face might have kept the splinters away, but the way he squared it up, damn.
    #6
  7. glory racing

    glory racing Been here awhile

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    Oh shoot!
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  8. DR Donk

    DR Donk Been here awhile

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    I watched it a couple of times and it looks like he might have been day dreaming or something.
    #8
  9. tastroman

    tastroman Long timer

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    Yeah, seems like he was tuned out. It's one of the dangers of group rides as everyone gets fatigued at different times and unless the leader plans conservatively some in the group might push pasted their limits.
    #9
  10. 11motos

    11motos Feral Rider

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    He made a mistake and drove off/ Mistakes and bikes do not go well together. "Relaxing" on the road is not really 100% relaxing ever.
    I am not sure what is the point of open face helmets unless one is pretty ugly already and/or doesn't mind feeding from a straw for a few months.

    Glad he survived the impact.
    #10
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  11. Husky360C

    Husky360C Been here awhile

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    There are a few lessons in the video, regarding what led to the crash. Perhaps some people can avoid a crash by closely studying the multiple mistakes
    made in order to learn what not to do.


    1) The riders in the group are riding too close together. This interferes with sight lines and gives a following rider less margin for avoidance if something goes wrong with
    the rider who is ahead of him. It's better to have more space between riders in a group ride, and even more so if the riders are not extremely familiar with the riding
    skill and riding styles of the others in the group. When I ride with people I don't know well, I always take the rear-most place in the group, which allows me to stay as
    far back from the group as I like while I observe how the others ride so I get a better idea of what to expect from the other riders. I can adjust my speed without
    causing a problem for any other riders in the group.

    2) All the riders in front of the rider who crashed rode a tighter line through the curve. The rider who crashes takes a much wider line, which combined with
    his corner entry speed and his refusal to lean his bike over further, makes riding off the outside of the curve inevitable. The curve is a decreasing radius
    curve, and generally it's best to approach such curves in a conservative manner and take a tight line through the corner that leaves you with more margin for error.
    This is what rally drivers do - the expression John Buffum used to describe the style is : "in like a lamb, out like a lion". The "slow in, faster out" style leaves you
    a lot more margin if you're met with a surprise, and unless you're racing, is generally a good strategy for street riding, most especially on roads you don't know well.

    3) This crash did not have to happen. Multiple mistakes led to the crash. Even with the improper entry line and the excessive speed, the rider could have used more lean
    angle and avoided the crash. It's good to know the cornering abilities of your bike so you are aware of how close to the limit of your bike's performance you are riding.
    And with those limits of cornering performance in mind, leave something in reserve so you aren't forced into a crash if you meet with something you didn't expect, like
    an oil patch, or a possum, or a pothole, in the middle of a corner.

    4) The open face helmet for street riding gives up a lot of protection. I literally still have a lower jaw because of a Bell Star I was wearing years ago when some guy in a
    Chevelle deliberately ran me off the road. A full-coverage helmet has benefits that are obvious. Even if people feel macho enough to wear an open face helmet, they
    are ignoring their responsibilities to their family and loved ones by subjecting themselves to greater risk unnecessarily. I detest the "nanny state" mindset, but at the same time I feel we all have a responsibility to our loved ones to do everything in our power to increase the probability of coming home safely.
    #11
  12. SenorCollin

    SenorCollin Been here awhile

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    I detest the "nanny state," no buts. Get rid of helmet laws and let natural selection do its thing. Same with seat belts.
    #12
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  13. sluagh

    sluagh not fade away

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    Looks like the rider was afraid to lean the bike. He froze, straightened up, target fixated and ran right off the road. It appears to be a touring bike which would have somewhat limited lean angle but he was barely leaning when he gave up. It looks like he might even have had time to hit the brakes before he lost it but that guy just froze solid and quit.

    He never should have been on that ride.

    One bit of advice I heard early on: ride that bitch out. Even if you think you can't make the turn it's better to low side it than run off the road. And you almost always have a lot more traction left than you think you do.
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  14. st3ryder

    st3ryder Long timer

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    Orrrrr...shit happens. :-)

    Looks like a simple case of target fixation. No sermon in hind sight needed.
    #14
  15. st3ryder

    st3ryder Long timer

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    I had a somewhat similar get off years ago. No group ride. No fence. I was alone, bombing down an unfamiliar road, got into a tight left hander way too hot and got distracted at the very last moment, (a hidden road appeared which I needed to check for traffic) and missed my ideal turning point. Best thing I could have done was to stand the bike up and run it off road wide into tall grass and thereby sustained minimal damage. Had I leaned even more *on the gravel I was then on*, I would have low sided for sure and wrote the bike off.

    Though I agree that there are certain "best" ways to ride generally speaking, at times one is left to do the best he can under fast changing conditions.

    Years ago Casey Stoner laid his WSBK Honda down to reduce harm when he couldn't slow down fast enough for a corner. Nobody questioned his move saying he should have rode it out. (Honda later came out and said it was a mechanical issue)

    Shit happens. And when it does, it happens very, very fast. Every time we throw a leg over, we accept the risk. ATGATT. :-)
    #15
  16. ktmgeoff

    ktmgeoff Remember it's not a race!

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    On a positive note, at least his bare arms didn't suffer gravel rash.
    #16
  17. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    Target fixation, rode a perfectly good motorcycle into a fencepost.....
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  18. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    He didn't lay it down



    Accident you are referring to.
    #18
  19. Husky360C

    Husky360C Been here awhile

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    It was not target fixation. The line the guy who crashed was riding was wrong well before he rode off the outside of the curve. All three of the other guys riding in front
    of the guy who crashed rode a tighter line at very close to the same speed and did not have any problem making it through the curve.

    What I wrote was not a "sermon", it was an explanation of the mistakes that led to the crash. I wrote it because some riders might benefit from understanding the mistakes made by the guy who crashed. Since you are not the site owner or a moderator, you are not in a position to tell me what to write.
    #19
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  20. Husky360C

    Husky360C Been here awhile

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    Since people who don't use helmets or seat belts don't always just die, and sometimes end up in an intensive care unit which costs the rest of us in the form of higher insurance rates because some of them cannot pay the resulting bills, there's a bit more to helmet laws and seatbelt laws than Darwin or the "nanny state". Many people are stupid and that causes the need for laws which act to encourage certain behaviors.

    I and many other people do not want to be financially penalized for the stupidity of others. And that is one of numerous reasons why there are helmet laws and seat belt laws. The laws are not going away ; some laws are necessary whether you like it or not.

    .
    #20
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