Petroglyphs

Discussion in 'The Rockies – It's all downhill from here...' started by selaznog, Jan 11, 2010.

  1. selaznog

    selaznog Roadless Warrior

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    NOW WITH AN INDEX

    Part 1 - Near La Bajada (scroll down)
    Part 2 - Guadalupe Ruins, Tapia Canyon
    Part 3 - Chupadero
    Part 4 - Some nice pieces found by AtomicXrer near the Rio Grande (page 5)
    Part 5 - Chupadero Again (page 5)
    Part 6 - Big Bead Mesa (page 6)

    I did a recent day ride trying to find an alternate route up La Bajada. There is a canyon that runs just south of the route that has been discussed here many times.

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    Using Google Earth I saw that there was a passable path/road all the way to La Cienega. I had to cross the Santa Fe river a few times.

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    I passed by this thing in the middle of nowhere.
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    I don't what is was, but don't go inside. :dunno

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    Anyway, I finally ran into a fence that I couldn't get around. I started heading back, looked up, and saw a petroglyph. In the last year I've been using motorcycling as an excuse to see new things and learn more about history, so this was a perfect opportunity. I got off the bike and they were everywhere. One of the first ones read like a warning, and I was glad to be in MX boots.
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    It was truly awesome to be in such isolation yet right in the heart of what appeared to be an ancient village.
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    After taking a bunch of photos and deciding to get on my way, I noticed a deteriorated structure just yards from my bike. If you look in the upper left corner, you can catch a glimpse of the stream that's about 150 yards from the bottom of the hill where the petroglyphs are.
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    This last one was apparently made by one of the Spaniards who settled the area. They were known to have made their own markings in petroglyph fields between the time they started settling the area (1598) and the Pueblo Revolt (1680). Note the unusual spelling of the last name.
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    There's some pretty cool stuff just about everywhere. If I had been riding faster, I wouldn't have looked up from the trail, and I woud have missed it all.
    #1
  2. Hair

    Hair no wants or warrants

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    I did that run last year. After words I was told that it might be tribal lands. If you go far enough you will start passing a bunch of large city type water wells.
    #2
  3. riderjohn

    riderjohn Tag Sniper

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    Very cool!!
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  4. selaznog

    selaznog Roadless Warrior

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    Did you encounter the fence? The road leads right up to a place where someone has reconfigured a gate (typical ranch kind with a few sticks woven into the wire) into a fence. The tracks have grown faint from non use. I have since tried to find the other end in La Cienega with no luck. I never saw a no trespassing sign on the parts that I traveled.
    #4
  5. AKASY

    AKASY Noob

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    looks like a great place to explore and nearby too!:clap

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  6. Hair

    Hair no wants or warrants

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    I came into it from the south. If I remember correctly I opened atleast two gates. The road crossed the stream several times. Some of the crossings were plenty deep. The road then ended up by some wells that were being drilled. I didn't see a way out heading north.
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  7. Gordy

    Gordy SUPPORTER

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    Nice!!! :thumb
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  8. Esteban

    Esteban Banned

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    Yep, slowing down has its rewards. Great stuff !
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  9. AtomicGeo

    AtomicGeo Orale

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    I've been thru there once.

    Did you go past the mines (La Bajada Mines)? If you go past the mines you can hike up a trail to go see some old indian ruins (Tsinat Ruins) , however, I was not able to go much north pass the ruins and a clear path to La Cienega was not visible to me.
    #9
  10. doc_ricketts

    doc_ricketts Thumper jockey Supporter

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    Fascinating.:clap:clap
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  11. 1stworks

    1stworks dude

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    +1
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  12. Fleg

    Fleg Fleg in 2012

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    Is that the same area as some old uranium mines?
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  13. AtomicGeo

    AtomicGeo Orale

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    Yes....no wonder why they have those test wells there.

    :norton

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  14. Medic09

    Medic09 Been here awhile

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    Very cool! Thanks for putting this up.

    As for the spelling of 'Sandobal' rather than 'Sandoval' as we see it today; I wonder how unusual that was 300 or more years ago. Different dialiects might have prevailed where the fellow was from.

    There is a parallel to this in Hebrew. The letter 'bet' also appears as the letter 'vet'. 'B' or 'v'. Same letter. Pronunciation varies primarily based on rules of grammar; but dialects play a role. In many places where Eastern European Jews would pronounce the letter 'vet', the Spanish Jews pronounced it 'bet'. This difference is preserved to this day between Ashkenazim (European Jews) and Sefardim (Spanish or Spanish derived Jews). Very much like the difference between Sandoval and Sandobal. It really makes me wonder if the 'b' pronunciation was more common among Spaniards at a certain time in history. Or maybe even just among Spaniards from a particular region of the Iberian peninsula. Assuming, of course, that the inscription was genuinely old.
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  15. AtomicGeo

    AtomicGeo Orale

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    Interesting thoughts.

    There are all kinds of variants of Sannoval, Sandoval, Sandobal, Sandovel that originated from medieval Spain...the "-bal" ending is much more common in Spain. This is true w/ lots of spanish last names.
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  16. Learn2turn

    Learn2turn WORK AND PLAY DUALSPORTER

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    I felt like I was there.
    nice post and great photo essay.
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  17. DirtDad

    DirtDad Green Chile Guru

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    Pretty Cool. :D
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  18. selaznog

    selaznog Roadless Warrior

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    George: I saw the roads to the mines (don't know what kind they are), but I was short on time. It's on a list of places to go.

    Medic09: Obviously I didn't carbon date it, but I believe the inscription is genuinely old. It was higher up on the hill, and there were no other signs of human activity in a LONG time. Also, one of the photos I did not post shows a cross, which is consistent with the missionary purpose of the Spaniards who settled the area. It is also consistent with the practice of the Spaniards at the time, whose penchant for inscriptions has been well documented.

    The Jewish angle is interesting, because some people argue that there were many Jews who came to New Mexico in those days to avoid the Inquisition. There's a DNA project that has provided some limited authority for the proposition, and my sister is always on my case to take part. There is also a great deal of literature on the subject of "Hidden Jews" in New Mexico.
    #18
  19. Fleg

    Fleg Fleg in 2012

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    Last time I was up there we found a sign that said they were Uranium mines.
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  20. selaznog

    selaznog Roadless Warrior

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    I better not spend too much time up there or my avatar will reference more than a baseball team. :lol3
    #20