Phone Not Charging on the Bike

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Schmokel, Mar 27, 2017.

  1. Schmokel

    Schmokel "Falling Down" makes more sense every day.

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    Alright. This has been bugging me for some time now.

    My cheapo Kyocera Air refuses to keep a steady charge on my bike. On a full charge, it lasts about 6h plugged in on my bike with GPS going. Less if I have BlueTooth enabled.

    I now own an S5 so I'm going to compare the two using both the app Ampere and a physical meter showing the charge rate.

    S5 plugged into the wall charges at about 850mA on the meter. Ampere topped out at 900mA.

    Kyocera plugged into the wall charges at about 650mA on the meter. Ampere was a little over 820mA.

    Oddly enough, running GPS and BlueTooth music going, the charge rate barely moved compared to all apps closed. I didn't notice a difference.

    So we have that both phones charge on the wall just fine. Enough to charge while apps are running. Great.

    Now onto the bike.

    S5 charges 1200mA with all apps going. 1880mA with no apps. Thing went up like 2% in a minute. Crazy fast.

    Kyocera instantly reads 460mA and drops to 80mA. Both Ampere and the meter read 80mA.

    So the S5 works the balls on the bike. Perfect. Charges at almost double than the wall. Kyocera is a freakin' brick on the bike. It'd take two weeks to charge on the bike from 0% battery. Why is that? I have the phone setup for charge only in the connection options. Can it tell it's D/C power?

    Here's a video I took of the setup:



    No idea what the issue is. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
    #1
  2. applicant_255

    applicant_255 Been here awhile

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    I found that my bike would give too high a voltage for many USB chargers to work properly, above 13v, which is right to charge the battery properly, but most chargers expect 12v.

    USB is supposed to be 5v +/- 5%

    i was getting above 5.5 quite often.

    I used a USB battery tester and only found one 12v plug that would accurately check the voltage and consistently adjust so that it put out 1amp at 5v, the charger that came with my XGPS150 bluetooth gps.

    The two wired into my bike weren't useful. When things were plugged into them, they would only occasionally charge when the voltage dropped.

    I think I might still be able to use them with a battery bank, or put them behind some kind of voltage regulator.

    I was going to do a post detailing what I found and my solution, but in the meantime I've just been using my 8000mah power brick.

    Since I've got three solar panels now, and a bunch of power bricks, and even my campstove supplies USB power ( and I recently bought a second fire-> USB power device ) I'm kinda already at peak USB anyway.
    #2
  3. Schmokel

    Schmokel "Falling Down" makes more sense every day.

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    I just can't explain why my Kyocera won't charge on the bike but the S5 will charge exceedingly well.
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  4. j21a2t89

    j21a2t89 Lurking Noob Supporter

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    USB supplies are supposed to tell how much current is available. It sounds like the kyocera can't recognise how much current it can draw and so has selected a "safe" amount. The second paragraph here has a good explanation but bear in mind that not all manufacturers comply with standards. You may be able to make a circuit (usually just a couple of voltage dividers) that will tell the kyocera it can draw more current.
    #4
  5. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    I've run mine with Ampere and it showed 1800ma. i had to use a Samsung plug and Motorola USB cord to get that rate. it would charger from zero to 100% in about 50 minutes that way. on the bike i forgot to check, but it held 100% with a dollar store cord and cable.
    #5
  6. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    This plus I have serious issues with the USB you are plugging into, mine flat out deceides that it isn't going to work at times, its getting replaced as soon as I have time to deal with it.
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  7. SpudMonkey

    SpudMonkey Adventurer

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    This weekend I tried this out on my older Hydro Air. It used to charge fine at up to 500mA using the Battery Tender adapter.

    However, as I am working on setting the bike up for a newer DuraForce XD, I ended up buying a MotoPower adapter that could support charge rates higher than 500mA.
    While the MotoPower adapter charged the XD fine at up to 1.5A rates, I was surprised to see the Hydro Air ran into the same problem described here where it wouldn't charge at more than about 80mA after a very brief burst of 400mA+ (using in-line current measurement on the USB cable).

    So I ended up getting a set of these SmartCharge adapters to put inline, which resulted in it charging at around 1A+:
    https://www.amazon.com/PortaPow-Charge-Block-Adaptor-SmartCharge/dp/B00QRRZ2QM

    Also tried removing the SmartCharge adapter and only hacking an old cable by first cutting the D+ and D- lines, then shorting only the USB D+/D- lines connected to the Hydro Air side. It charged at close to 1A as well. Supports the idea that it's related to the BCP article that j21 mentioned, and it may be an option to try if you got an old USB cable or two to spare.
    #7
  8. Schmokel

    Schmokel "Falling Down" makes more sense every day.

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    Now wait a moment. I too am using the MotoPower charger. And you said that was causing issues? Hm. I do have another charger I could try using. That will be my next thing I try then.
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  9. webmonstro

    webmonstro A Aventura Continua....

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    Mesure the voltage at the cable wile charging on bike and on the wall socket
    Just cut open a cable and mesure with a multimer connected parralell to the phone , i bet you will see a under or over voltage compared to the wall socket that that will make the phone not go into full charge mode

    You can also searce for a 14/24v usb charger , these will have the internal circuitry to handle bigger variations in input voltage than the 12v ones witch expect constant 12v input
    #9
  10. Schmokel

    Schmokel "Falling Down" makes more sense every day.

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    I have another USB charger on a shelf somewhere that I'm going to try hooking up. I'll see if that makes a difference. Perhaps its this particular charger.
    #10
  11. applicant_255

    applicant_255 Been here awhile

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    I got one of these usb multimeters last year and have been poking it into everything to test with, it tells you the volts being supplied, the milliamps and will total up how many mah it's delivered since it was plugged in. It flashes the dot when it's over or under voltage as well. It's explained a lot of weird charge/slow charge issues, and they're pretty cheap, around $10-$15.

    https://www.amazon.ca/DROK-Multimeter-Capacity-Charging-Detector/dp/B00J3JSEG6

    This isn't the exact one I got, but they're all pretty much clones of the same stuff, when I looked it up the drok was one of the first I think, if not the original.
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  12. worwig

    worwig Long timer

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    The Samsung phone uses a Qualcomm chip set to control the charge rate. The chip set actually draws current at a higher and higher rate and detects a mild 'overload' condition. At the point, the Samsung knows how much power it can draw and uses that as the charge limit.
    The Kyocera likely uses that more normal 'short D+ & D-' to determine a high charge rate. The issue is that most chargers cater to Apple, which does not follow the standard and does not short D+ & D-. You likey need to short D+ & D-, or get a different charger.
    #12
  13. Schmokel

    Schmokel "Falling Down" makes more sense every day.

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    So perhaps using that portapower adapter thing linked above would fix that? Ugh. Not sure if I want that thing exposed to the weather.
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  14. Schmokel

    Schmokel "Falling Down" makes more sense every day.

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    Spent another hour in the shop tonight. Tried another USB connection. Same. 80mA. Tried Dad's bike. 80mA. Tried three different car batteries. 80mA. In the wall, about 700mA. This thing just does not want to charge on d/c power. The 3.1A charger on the bike and the 2.1A port I had kicking around did not make a difference. The only thing I can think of, the phone detects a higher than normal amp and throttles the charging back like it was mentioned before. The wall charger is .7A so the phone considers that safe.
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  15. Dyn Blin

    Dyn Blin Irn Bru Lover

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    have you tried a hard reset? I had a Kyocera Brigadier that I loved because it was really tough, but it had a software glitch that would throttle it on charging. A hard reset would fix it, for a while.
    #15
  16. Schmokel

    Schmokel "Falling Down" makes more sense every day.

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    alright alright. I think I got it. I jumped the two center pins. Shorted them out. Charged dropped to 80mA on the wall. Removed the tin foil, back up to 600mA or so. I have a plug here that came with my S5 that plugs into the wall. Has two USB ports. One labeled 1A. The other 2.4A. The 1A the Kyocera charges at 600mA. The 2.4A drops to 80mA.

    So the phone is detecting a high charge rate and throttles it back to 80mA. I need to get around that.
    #16
  17. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    Shouldn't be tol hard to find a 1A usb adaptor.
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  18. Schmokel

    Schmokel "Falling Down" makes more sense every day.

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    Looking now.

    What is the style plug called on the motorcycle. The plug that you would attack to a charger. Powerlet?
    #18
  19. Schmokel

    Schmokel "Falling Down" makes more sense every day.

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  20. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    Well maybe that is a cheapo HK make, so who knows what it actually puts out. That "should" work. Really though, if you can solder basically at all any weather protected adapter that can take a 14VDC input can be grafted on. particularly if you want to keep that trickle charger style (I do because I have a USB in my tank bag).

    Anytime you are going straight off of the battery you are actually running 14VDC because that is what your Regulator puts out to charge the bike's battery. If you want to tap a different line that IS 12VDC that also works, but becomes a little more complicated.
    #20