Pike and San Isabel National Forests Public Motor Vehicle Use Draft Environmental Impact Statement

Discussion in 'The Rockies – It's all downhill from here...' started by Lord Dogmeat, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. Lord Dogmeat

    Lord Dogmeat Been here awhile

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    Might be a repost (yes I searched before I posted this but still :) ), but the DEIS regarding OHV usage for the Pike and San Isabel Nat'l forest was released yesterday and the public comment period is now open.

    RRMMC sent an email out yesterday with the following information:

    I haven't commented yet, but I'm still going through reading the DEIS and the TPA summaries and trying to form something relevant and cohesive to say. I plan on doing so soon. TPA did a very wonderful job summarizing this, but I still don't like to do a straight cut/paste :D

    Sorry if this is a repost.
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  2. ramz

    ramz Professional Trail Rider Supporter

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    Routes open; Alternative C is the proposed alternative:

    [​IMG]

    1.7 PROPOSED ACTION
    The PSI is proposing to designate roads, trails, and areas open to public motor vehicle use across the 2,230,216 acres of NFS lands on the PSI, while decommissioning some of the routes contested by the plaintiffs and outlined in the settlement agreement dated November 13, 2015. This would change the existing transportation system on the PSI. That route system is documented through MVUMs, the Forest Service’s INFRA database, spreadsheets, and reports, along with spatial data. Alternative C is the proposed action for the PSI.

    :ricky
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  3. Lord Dogmeat

    Lord Dogmeat Been here awhile

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    Why not Alternative D?
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  4. _CJ

    _CJ Retrogrouch

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    It'd be nice if they provided maps showing what's being decommissioned, reclassified ,etc. Hopefully that will be available at the public meetings.
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  5. ramz

    ramz Professional Trail Rider Supporter

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  6. _CJ

    _CJ Retrogrouch

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    This stuff is so difficult to wade through, I'm really thankful for the TPA being on top of it and sent them a donation this morning.

    Edit: It looks like Alt D has several miles of new "motorcycle only" trail in the Gold Camp Road area around Penrose Res, and Elk Park. That would be pretty exciting, but it also looks like they're trying to make the gated portion of Gold Camp "special use permit only", which is absolutely out of the question IMHO.
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  7. _CJ

    _CJ Retrogrouch

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    Upon closer inspection, by downloading the document and zooming in, it appears the gated off section of Gold Camp (370) is safe, or at least only subject to seasonal closure on alt D. Lots of problems with alt D though. Several trails (717 area especially) are just missing from the map, not noted as decommissioned, just not there. Lots of seasonal closures, and roads being changed to admin use only in alt D too.

    The TPA is all over this, and I think whatever they recommend will be the way to go. It's way too big for one person to take in, and no single person can know all the areas and trails involved here.


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  8. Lord Dogmeat

    Lord Dogmeat Been here awhile

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  9. _CJ

    _CJ Retrogrouch

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  10. dmac1

    dmac1 Long timer

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    The link is to TPA/COHVCO response from 3 years ago, back when we all could comment. I'm sure they'll have some analysis for us at some point once they too have had time to digest things.

    The following looks good cuz it sounds like they would be making some of the places that are used for staging into 'official' staging areas:

    Under Alternative C, there would be 85 new parking locations (totaling 37 acres), and 2.7 miles of new trail added to the NFS system. Adding designated parking locations may increase the potential for impacts on MIS and RFSS and their habitat, compared with Alternative A. This analysis assumes an insignificant amount of new construction for parking locations as most parking locations would occur in user-created areas.
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  11. _CJ

    _CJ Retrogrouch

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    Spent a little more time looking over the maps this morning.

    The way I'm reading it, Alternatives B and E call for the decommissioning of the entire Capt'n Jack's trail system, and all the Jeep roads connecting to it. I haven't broadened my search beyond the area of my local knowledge yet, but I'm sure this deal could be equally devastating to most of the trails and roads that we all enjoy.

    The motorized community has to show up for this one, or it may just all be taken away. Once it's gone, it's gone. Complaining after the fact will have no effect.


    EDIT: Almost ALL of the Rampart Range trails and 717 trails are also on the chopping block. They even show the Pikes Peak Highway as being slated for decommissioning!




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  12. Lord Dogmeat

    Lord Dogmeat Been here awhile

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    Ok, so if they just opened up the comment period 3 years later, what's the best alternative ..... A, no option? I already commented on D based on what I thought their recommendation was ....
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  13. MurphCO

    MurphCO Been here awhile

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    No action always has to be an option to check the NEPA boxes
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  14. Lord Dogmeat

    Lord Dogmeat Been here awhile

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    I thought about that, and figured it had little chance if any of behind adopted, especially since the USFS itself was proposing alt c .... so I figured if I was going to comment, I'd comment on something that might have a chance especially since TPA "had it in writing" that was what they supported, even with modifications ...
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  15. _CJ

    _CJ Retrogrouch

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    Support whatever you feel is best. D would be a huge win for the motorcycle community as far as I can tell at this point, and support for it will help counter some of the crazies who want B or E.

    Thank you for getting involved!


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  16. _CJ

    _CJ Retrogrouch

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    This week is it for public meetings. Our one and only chance to have face to face discussions with the forest service about this deal. Meeting with them face to face, and showing them we're reasonable people who also care about the environment, has a huge impact on the process imho, but we also have to get our written comments on record by submitting a comment on the website.

    Salida - 10/8
    Pueblo - 10/9
    Denver - 10/10
    Colo Sprgs - 10/11

    And for those who think this doesn't matter, or that we can't make a difference. Take a look at the letters in the "reading room". Many have already been submitted calling for all motorized access to be removed, but there are also already many in favor of motorized use. Your silence on this topic is a vote in favor of removing motorized access.
    https://cara.ecosystem-management.org/Public//ReadingRoom?Project=48214



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  17. dmac1

    dmac1 Long timer

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    Below is a comment from a guy from CORE who attended last nights meeting in Salida. Its kinda what I expected....i.e. the meetings aren't really 'meetings' as those of us in the business world know them. Its sounds similar to the one I went to years ago. At that one, they had a bunch of posters and maps set around, with no presenter, and we were on our own to walk around and look at stuff. I think we'll have our biggest impact via making informed comments.

    "I attended the public meeting last night in Salida. I would like to send feedback based on my experience. I was highly disappointed the public was not addressed or welcomed to the meeting by the FS or the private contractor. No introduction was made, the format was not clarified, and no personnel were introduced. This gave no direction to the public or the FS staff present and whom they may direct their questions to. Alternative C was not highlighted as the preferred option nor was it ever explained why. This is a highly complex process with 5 Alternatives that have analyzed nearly 2,500 road/trail segments. If someone from the public did not have intimate details of the process, they certainly were not catered to at this meeting and surely would have left more confused then when they arrived. This meeting seemed to check the box of hosting a public meeting in Salida, much more so than to meet with the public and solicit substantial comments and feedback."
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  18. Assfault

    Assfault Exposed Member Supporter

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    CJ,
    Do you now where the Pueblo and CSprings locations are and what time?
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  19. ADV3144

    ADV3144 Diggin it

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  20. dmac1

    dmac1 Long timer

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