Pitster Pro LXR 250f

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Navin, Oct 23, 2017.

  1. Cuttlefish

    Cuttlefish Riding to disappear.

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    You break down far down that other fork.
    You hear the sound of banjos...you are well and truly forked...or going to be. Suddenly that fat chick on the crf250l seems a lot more appealing and a lot less painful.
    You must realise on a Chinese menu if it says Peking duck it may look like duck and quack like a duck but the dog in the alley has mysteriously disappeared and you are going to "Squeal like a pig... boy!... cause we don't got no ducks out here."
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  2. Bitingdog

    Bitingdog That's not my dog

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    LoL!

    Seriously though, my biases are well known, but I am cautiously optimistic about it.

    Having 50 state factory street legal status would certainly add to it's appeal.

    Looking forward to seeing one with #506 on it :-)
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  3. malignity

    malignity Wonton

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    Isn't there a magic number you have to produce before you're subject to EPA regulations? I thought this is why Yamaha and KTM have much higher restrictions than say, Beta. For some reason I thought they were exempt due to the lesser amount produced.
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  4. malignity

    malignity Wonton

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    An XR650R is lighter than a DRZ-400SM. Especially if you put it in a KTM 500 chasis.

    I rest my case. ;)
  5. Lutz

    Lutz Fuzzy Rabbit

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    No.
  6. adam728

    adam728 Long timer

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    Actually, the answer is yes.

    I'll have to dig on the EPA site, but small volume manufacturers are held to a looser standard than large makers. I think the cutoff is something like 3000 units (total, not model) and 200 employees. I want to say total exemption from evaporative emissions and slightly more lenient (maybe 20%) on exhaust emissions.
  7. Joezeph

    Joezeph Been here awhile

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  8. malignity

    malignity Wonton

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    I thought this was the case -- as it makes sense why Beta is passing emissions standards in a pound or two of added weight, yet Kawasaki, Honda and Yamaha have been doing it in 8-12. It's not just a lack of engineering/R&D. There's no way. These systems, like the Whizzer's EXUP Valve for example are way over-engineered and complex compared to Beta. There has to be a reason, however I did not know the exact numbers as to what they were. I imagine Pitster could easily get by under the same guise as Beta is doing currently.
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  9. Grreatdog

    Grreatdog Long timer Supporter

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  10. malignity

    malignity Wonton

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    This whole "made in China" thing has brought up some really interesting discussion amongst my local riding friends. Almost all of us here are brand purists, Navin with KTM, Myself with Yamaha, etc, and it really makes you wonder how much you pay for a "brand" name. We see this bike, with potential to actually not suck at all, with Honda presenting the epitome of suck and charging double for it.

    If you, I, or anyone else, or heaven forbid, Zongshen -- a China manufacturer, were to spend hundreds or thousands of hours and dollars doing R&D, which we all know they ARE capable of doing, even if it's kicking and screaming, and say they developed a bike that was truly and honestly better than a KTM, would you, I, or China XYZ company, even be given a second thought? Say we could guarantee reliability and competition on the track, would anyone give us a look-see?

    We aren't a brand name after all, and we see Ossa, Gas Gas (until the phoenix project) etc being bought and sold, solely for the brand name, simply to get a foot in the door.

    How exactly does one "step" into this market under their own name? Is it possible? At one point even Yamaha was in the spot Pitster is. Not saying they're the same quality, but we'll see. It just makes me wonder "what if." What if Zongshen were to make a badass bike all on their own, better than a KTM. Would anyone look, or would it get shuffled under the rug since it's made in China and not a "brand name."

    Forgive the monolog, but it makes me wonder. I directly compared the Pitster to my buddy who was familiar with the AJP PR5, and showed that they have the exact same engine, the exact same brand suspension, and almost the exact same frame. His response was "There's a reason AJP is better and costs more."

    Could that sole reason simply be because AJP has made a "name" for themselves? A duck, called by any other name, is still a duck, regardless of what you want to call it otherwise.

    Time will tell. In Navin we trust.
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  11. Navin

    Navin Long timer

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    I sit patiently waiting for my tracking info. Cant wait to see whats what when it is in hand.

    Hey, brand names? I have a Husqvarna, Husqvarna proper hasnt existed in decades. BMW even jnew the name had value, but they have ADD and cant focus long enough to well.... Theres that.

    So, in shopping for a 21/18" wheeled playbike, the Pitster won. I have held the big 4 bikes in my hands, ridden them too. I cant see the Pitster being worse honestly. My DIL has a KLX140g, this 250f against that for trailing and plonking? No contest IMO. CRF230? TTR250 that they dont even make anymore? Na.

    Id actually pick up the SSR before those options and I wasnt impressed by a few things on it but I could have dealt with that.

    So, for my MX bike, I want what I have, my FC checks boxes I didnt know rxisted a few years ago. The sticker on the shrouds means nothing. Hardware matters. And looks, cause you know, guys dig hot bikes!

    image.jpeg
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  12. Bultaco206

    Bultaco206 Back-to-back motos suck Supporter

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    I'm old enough to remember when the Euro bikes ruled (Bultaco/Montesa/Ossa/Maico/Husqvarna, et al.) and the Japanese brands were just catching on. On the street the gap wasn't so large, but BSA and Triumph (the original version) were still very much players.

    I've always thought that when the dust settled on the post-2008 collapse era we would see someone from China step-up and begin to be relevant. I'm still waiting. In the 1960s the Japanese brands were the 'China bikes' of that era so it's possible to do. Maybe. Perhaps the Millennials ain't biting and that's why we haven't seen it happen yet.

    But I'm interested to see what Navin has unearthed. Sounds promising so far, and very Hodaka-esque. Those of you age 50 and over will understand what I mean by that.
  13. davesupreme

    davesupreme grand poobah

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    didn't that chinois bike try to do Dakar this year??.... :fpalm
  14. Navin

    Navin Long timer

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    Japan isnt hitting all the notes, Euro companies set a hook in off road, now pushing outward on the street and an era is starting in China much in the same way it did in Japan in the 50s, 60s, 70s, etc... Cheapo toys to i dustrial giant.

    I won't be surprised if the next big thing in DS is a 450cc Honda/KTM Chinese clone with a 6 speed, F.I. and full 50 state legal. SSR seems to have the certification thing going with their street line. Its just a matter of time till theres a half priced $5000-$6000 KTM EXC alternative. All the pieces are in place already.

    Depending on how this holds up, I see sending my suspension to my guy for a good SSSing or WP guts upgrade (if needed) and eventually maybe the engine to Travis at Thumper Racing for a looky at a BB or stroker build. Hey, see what happens. Im optimistic.
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  15. Bultaco206

    Bultaco206 Back-to-back motos suck Supporter

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    Good Lord there's only one dealer in WI. At a marina. :fpalm
  16. Navin

    Navin Long timer

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    Better than at a Pep Boys or Tractor Supply! :rofl
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  17. Bultaco206

    Bultaco206 Back-to-back motos suck Supporter

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    :photog
  18. Grreatdog

    Grreatdog Long timer Supporter

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    I picked up some cheap O'Neal boots even cheaper way back when Pep Boys threw in the towel on selling Chinese bikes.

    I got a lot more use out of those not as sleazy as I expected for WAY under $100 riding boots than I ever dreamed possible.
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  19. Lutz

    Lutz Fuzzy Rabbit

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    I meant no, as in there is no total exemption from EPA regulation for small volume manufacturers. Yes, there are some relaxations of allowable emissions, and generally eased requirements for proving compliance. But they still need to meet EPA emissions and recordkeeping requirements. EPA has slammed similar small volume importers in the recent past with massive fines for getting it wrong. Pitster obviously knows that quite well.

    The small volume manufacturer threshold is fewer than 3,000 unit annual sales in the U.S. and fewer than 500 employees globally. Here's a good document on the whole topic:
    https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...control-of-emissions-from-highway-motorcycles

    Pitster might very well meet the SVM definition, but in order to produce highway motorcycles rather than off road motorcycles, they'd have to meet the applicable highway motorcycle standards. Which are much more onerous than for off road motorcycles...i.e. much more costly to meet.
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  20. malignity

    malignity Wonton

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    Do yourself, and us a favor. Before you write your review, go to your local Honda dealership and inspect the quality of the CRFL. Being a KTM purist, I don't expect KTM quality, but if they can reach bottom barrel Honda quality, that's saying something. :photog
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