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Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by enewmen, Jun 3, 2021.
They have a sim purpose but the gearbox is a big differentiator between them...
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This ADVISE will at least give you some experience that you can directly relate to and use for your future purchasing decision.
Some excellent advise right here.
As someone else stated, you'll need springs and any revalve can wait until you figure what kind rider you are and terrain you like best.
If you get a small bore 2 stroke you will have to rev that sucker like you never revved a bike before. Hot tip the clutch is for more then changing gear they are super light and very fun but its a active ride.
I have an idea I think you will like.
Years ago as a late teen, I used to ride the CB360 a lot on canyon and hill trails near my house without a license, helmet, or boots because I had no job then for riding gear. That area was likely illegal to ride and the CB360 was what I had available. I finally got a job, license, and gear. Twenty years later, I test rode the KLR 650, but the only legal place to ride off-road nearby was circles in a campground, so I got the Ninja 250 instead which was a better road bike.
I don't like the idea of taking a "learning to ride" off-road class for kids that never rode any motorbike before. I don't think I will get much from renting a dirt bike just to discover riding on trails is a lot easier on a dirt bike than a street bike.
Anyway, I also plan to get a Chinese electric Sur Ron X (why I want this is another story) which is similar to a KTM Freeride E-XC except for half the weight/power/cost (like a 100cc 4T). That will be a good bike to spend hours mastering off-road skills:
The basics of power vs control, traction, hill climbs, sand, drifting around corners. Master the wheelie. How to pop enough wheelie to mount that rock ledge or clear a log. Master Jumps, whoops, and clearing doubles. Sand & mud. Sounds good, but I'll get strange looks at the MX track.
I can practice all this on the Sur Ron X before getting the full-size dirt bike. The dirt bike will likely be a modern large-bore smoker. Not because I want to go very fast, but the larger engine can ride at moderate speeds with less stress. Prices are crazy high now.
Have fun whatever you do. All the free advice here isn't going to teach you anything about riding dirt, you just gotta get out and do it as there is no magical solution to shortening the learning curve. Some bikes will make that learning curve longer, typically bikes that are over powered or to heavy or just not designed for the intended use. But whatever right lol, just buy a bike, get some protective gear and don't spend a bunch of money adding bling and suspension until you have some hands on knowledge. You'll become way faster and way better spending money on running gas through the motor. PS I've ridden my Te250 fast (relatively) through desert terrain, over a mountain (hard(ish) enduro, 263km on a dual sport like jeep and atv trail trip, 120 km on the hwy (not planned and destroyed the tire mousse) and its been happy to cruise along in just about any conditions. If interested in what all this looks like check you can see vids on Youtube under CdnX690 - not a hopeful YouTube millionaire, just post for fun.
Hey, don't forget to do a follow up post to your original post, maybe 6 months after you get a bike. It'll be interesting to hear your thoughts.
Its good to do your homework but your are swerving all over the place. Where and with whom are you actually going to ride? Are you athletic and the sort of gifted person to whom everything comes naturally? Offroad riding is an actual endurance workout and it gets exponentially harder when you lack skills. Guys can quickly flame out with arm pump, bikes they cant pick up or start when they repeatedly fall over.
The surron idea isnt a terrible one as it will show you what knobbies feel like in dirt and help you get a feel for bumps, balance, weight shifts etc. It doesnt have enough power for training hill climbs, power sliding, sand, wheelies and outdoor motocross. If you see videos of people doing those activities, its because they already know the skills from riding and racing dirtbikes or mountainbikes and have floated up or down into the surron niche.
Find a riding buddy and do what they do. Buy used and modify your plan as you go.
I suggested this in my previous post.
This is not a kids class nor does it skimp on the type of moto offered to ride. Take a close look at the motos offered for the training class by this company.. they range from a 300 smoker to a FX450.. Those are top tier motos.
Just a little reminder.. I had a friend turning mid to low 9s in the quarter mile on his strapped and modified Busa with years of street bike experience. He made the decision to sell it because every time he got on it he was doing over 150 mph on public roads and realized it was going to end with an accident or loss of life. I convinced him to try dirt riding and he gave it a go. He went on his first ride in the dirt on a slightly sandy road and was petrified at riding at 40 mph. I was doing wheelies at 60 mph by him and he was shaking his head when we stopped to talk. We talked and he told me I was out of my mind. This was coming from a guy that did over 150 mph every time he rode his street moto. I told him that within 6 months and plenty of dirt riding he would be lining up with me on a KTM 500 and running drags from 0 to a 100 mph like it was walking, down this same sandy dirt road. He just shook his head and said you are nuts..
With lots of dirt ride time and learning dirt skills, my prediction was 100% correct. His KTM 500 on the right.
Point is, no matter what you may have experienced on the street, it will not give you the necessary skills and experience required for dirt riding. Sure it will help with knowing the basics of a moto but exchanging smooth sticky pavement to unsettled, ever changing rough, muddy, rocky, sandy dirt throws a huge wrench in the equation.
You should take the suggestions by those that know and are experienced, they are really trying to help you.
I think it's a good suggestion and the bikes look high quality. I had some other issues.
EDIT: I know experienced people are trying to help and I appreciate it.
I also accept your advice to take a training class and rent the bike are few times. I think I will like it a LOT!
Yes, the SurRon lacks in power. To help climb the hills, I'll increase the rear sprocket from 48 teeth to 64 teeth. Then there should still be enough top-speed for most dirt riding. I'm not gifted or even good, but I can see myself riding for hours. Lots of riding to get buff while having fun sounds good. I was out of the country for over 10 years. I expect to ride alone for a long time in OHV and MX parks until I know more people..
I wonder how long this thread will go on, before a dirt bike is actually purchased?
Obviously the difference you describe is even more drastic, your swap was a huge difference and you easily felt it. The same difference is there for the 40lbs I described, of course it's not near as drastic but its there and easily felt. If you (like the OP) wanted to start riding mx and technical trails you'd soon realize your 280lb 450L is kind of porky for that use. It will do it sure but you're going to work allot harder then the rider on the 240lb bike that just passed you.
^^^^ This 100%.
Perspective is a funny thing people that ride big ADV think of a 450 as a little bike. People that ride hard lumpy terrain on dirt bikes think of 450's as big heavy (fast) bikes.
What if you ride hard lumpy terrian on 450 pound bikes?....
my YZ250X was easier to ride than any KTM 4T bike I’ve ever tried. More fun too.
Congratulations, you might just be an A rider :)
Chances are there will be another thread created instead which will ask for suggestions on a bike that's good for Supercross, Touring, Trials, and MotoGP.
You have a excuse. Your a big strong dumb guy.
Should post the pic of you carrying you Ktm around
Paging @Bultaco206 to the orange courtesy phone.
I wasn't when I did it...
Hey, man...don’t drag me into this mess.