Project: Warthog

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by CCjon, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. claude stanley

    claude stanley Claude

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    CCjon ..... Did you find triple trees ?
    #61
  2. CCjon

    CCjon Gypsy Rider Supporter

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    No trees found. Hannigan and others can make trees for the 2006-09 Rockets, but no one can tell us what changed mid-2011 model year. The parts numbers change based on VIN number that year. My 2011 Rocket is a higher VIN number so the new parts numbers apply.

    Have decided to go with 2" fork cap extensions, progressive springs and a heavier fork oil to raise and stiffen the front for now. If steering is too difficult, will address that later.
    #62
  3. claude stanley

    claude stanley Claude

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    Raising just the front from stock without raising the rear will increase trail slightly.

    Attached Files:

    #63
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  4. claude stanley

    claude stanley Claude

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    #64
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  5. claude stanley

    claude stanley Claude

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    #65
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  6. claude stanley

    claude stanley Claude

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  7. CCjon

    CCjon Gypsy Rider Supporter

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    When the front is back together, will measure the new trailing. The rear is raised, the front will come up some, but mounted a smaller diameter front tire. Net effect... will have to measure.

    By staying with an MC tire on the front, the steering effort should not be as hard as going with an auto tire up front. Or is my thinking off on that?
    #67
  8. claude stanley

    claude stanley Claude

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    Some comparisins >>> Stock trail of bikes from the net:
    Goldwing 2004.....4.3 inches
    DL1000 V Strom ...4.3 inches
    1200 BMW GS .....4 inches
    Harley Fat Bob ....4.9 inches
    Harley Ultra ....6.7 inches
    ZX14 Ninja.....3.7 inches
    Triumph Exployer 1200 ...3.6 inches
    ROCKET 3 2019 .... 5.31 inches
    Early ROCKET 3 ....6 Inches

    I really think the Harley Ultra is not correct
    #68
  9. CCjon

    CCjon Gypsy Rider Supporter

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    Are those the Rocket Touring or the Rocket Roadster numbers?
    #69
  10. FLYING EYEBALL

    FLYING EYEBALL out of step

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  11. claude stanley

    claude stanley Claude

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    Dunno .... just googled Rocket 3 specs. Plenty of info on the net ,,,,, plus there are at least three rocket 3 specific facebook sites that should be a wealth of knowledge specific to the Rocket 3.
    " ROCKET 3 OWNERS GROUP " is one of them.
    #71
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  12. CCjon

    CCjon Gypsy Rider Supporter

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    Have joined the R3owners.net forum. After several postings on my either seeking parts or talking about the project, have connected with a Rocket rig owner in the mid-west and another in Australia. Photos of their rigs are helping to firm up how I want my build to proceed.
    #72
  13. Flyin' Monkeys

    Flyin' Monkeys Wicked Witch Airlines Supporter

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    @CCjon , if you are going to stick with a motorcycle tire on the front wheel, give serious consideration to using a Bridgestone BT 45, which is a Rear Tire, so it has harder compound rubber in the center of the tread, and slightly softer rubber on the outer edges of the tread. Most riders that have a Trike, or a larger sidecar rig, use these Bridgestone BT 45 tires on the FRONT wheel (even though they are a Rear Tire) because they last SO much longer.

    BT45 backwards.jpg
    #73
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  14. claude stanley

    claude stanley Claude

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    The idea of mounting a rear tire on the front and mounting it backwards to it's normal rotation has become common in the trike world. My concern , possibly unfounded and not based on personal experience, has always been related to tread design. If the grooves in a tire are placed to dissipate water when riding in the wet is not this design defeated when the tire is mounted backwards??? Any rubber to the road experience here ??? I am just going by speculation and simple common sense and asking if anyone has seen this to be an issue. If it is a non issue then it would seem to prove that tread design is not really important . Thoughts ? Experience? Any liability concerns voiced by those mounting the tires?
    #74
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  15. twintwin

    twintwin Been here awhile Supporter

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    Interesting discussion here, thanks Claude to bringing it up. Why would you put a rear tire on the front backwards?? My EZS rig will get in the front on the L.L. a Pirelli sport Demon 150/70-16 (actually a rear motorcycle tire), and I would be very interested to hear what the tires experts have to say, and what would be their recommandations.

    To Jan, the OP, what is the sense of rotation on your 17" front tire (a rear m.c. tire) on your EZS GS LC rig ??
    #75
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  16. steam powered

    steam powered just a regular punk

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    The reason for mounting the rear tire backwards comes down to the construction of the tire. When the tire is produced the tread starts of as a flat piece of rubber which is then spliced into a hoop. The splice is orientated in opposite directions on front and rear tires so that it is forced together when accelerating (rear) and braking (front). If the rear tire is not reversed when put on the front it will instead try to pull the splice apart when braking (the only tangential force on the front wheel), this means the tire will be weaker and more prone to failure.

    If you look at the design of many modern sports bike tires the tread pattern is reversed between the front and rear tires as it is considered more important to have the grooves running perpendicular to the load paths and hence creating a more stable tread than the water channeling effect. Because a motorbike tire does not run on the entire tread width at the same time the water does not have to be displaced as far to be removed from the contact patch, so the direction of the grooves has less effect.
    #76
  17. cycleman2

    cycleman2 Long timer

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    From what I've read on tires, lots of decent info on the web, the profile of the tire and its ability to disperse water are the reasons some motorcycle tires are marked front or rear. Then you have the universal tires that can be mounted on either the front or the rear, so they must have a common profile. I've used some of these on my rig over the years and they are bias tires. They were standard fare on the older bikes from the 70's, before radial tires came along. Front/rear tire profile on a 2 wheel bike is important as it would have a big impact on handling, not so much of an issue on a sidecar or trike. Getting back to my use of universal bias tires on my rig, the front tire lasted a long time.

    As the bike attached to the sidecar never leans mounting a rear motorcycle tire on the front, gives a flatter profile tire on the front. That is likely why they work and folks like them, as they would give more traction and higher load carrying ability as well as higher mileage. That being the case I'm not sure why you wouldn't have the tire turning the same direction, to retain its water shedding ability. I'm sure somebody will come along and explain why.
    #77
  18. Flyin' Monkeys

    Flyin' Monkeys Wicked Witch Airlines Supporter

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    Excellent question. And I just now had to go out into my wife's motorcycle garage (yes, she has her own motorcycle garage, to keep her bikes separated from mine, it's the cooties thing, don't ya know) :-), and looked at the tires on the front of her Goldwing 1800 with Hannigan Astro 2+2 sidecar rig.

    The Bridgestone BT 45 rear motorcycle tire that is mounted on her front wheel is indeed mounted backwards....confirmed.
    That means the same brand/model of tire mounted on MY sidecar rig is also mounted backwards. (mine is in my shop, and a farther distance to walk...it is till dark outside here)

    Real world experience: I now have 11,000 miles on that front tire on my rig, and from my seat-of-the-pants experience it works perfectly. As stated before, I do NOT ride gentle into that good night. I drive this rig like it is a Subaru WRX STi, so it gets used like it should be.

    As stated above by @steam powered , mounting a rear tire onto a front wheel, and mounting it backwards, now puts the rear tire tread groove design in the same direction as a normal front tire. It "looks" like a normal front tire now, as far as tire grooves and rain dissipation is concerned.

    As for "liability issues" voiced by those mounting these rear tire onto the front wheel...backwards, my local dealer knows me all too well, buy lots of bikes from them, and I am the customer that brings them dozens of donuts and pastries every week :imaposer, and one of the dealership "owners" actually works in the Service Dept., as he is truly a super tech, so the guys in the Service Dept know me very well, so if "I" ask to have this tire mounted backwards, they never question me or my motives, as they know that I know what I am requesting is unusual, and will not be held against them if there is a failure.

    Personally, O know of 100's of other Trike and Sidecar drivers that use this same Bridgestone BT 45 tire, mounted backwards onto the front wheel, and I "peronally" have never heard of a negative issue.

    Frankly, I know of several TWO wheeled motorcycle riders that also use this same Bridgestone BT 45 rear tire, mounted onto the front wheel of their TWO wheeled bikes, mounted backwards, because they are on very long rides where it is not convenient to find a shop to change tires on a limited TIME ride, covering a very LONG distance of miles. (oh, and they are using a Car Tire on the rear of these same bikes, so they can easily go 25k to 30k miles, on the same set of tires. That means one month for these guys) :-)
    #78
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  19. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad Former World's Foremost Authority Supporter

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    ATF is used in suspensions for it's anti-foaming characteristics.

    Some seal materials are enhanced with ATF and some degrade with ATF.
    #79
  20. CCjon

    CCjon Gypsy Rider Supporter

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    The front tire on the GSA/EZS rig is a Michelin Anakee III rear tire rolling against the arrow.
    #80