Proposed Colorado FS and other trail closings that WILL affect you.

Discussion in 'The Rockies – It's all downhill from here...' started by jjmead1, Nov 18, 2015.

  1. _CJ

    _CJ Rugged Individualist

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  2. Raul Duke

    Raul Duke DROC

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    Nothing like getting fucked 2x. Closed the trails/roads, then use our $s to pay the Enviro-assfuck attorneys.

    "The Forest Service agrees to pay to Plaintiffs the sum of $151,064.14 in full satisfaction of any and all claims for attorneys’ fees, costs, and other expenses related to this action."

    Shitbags.
    #22
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  3. Assfault

    Assfault Exposed Member Supporter

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    From what limited understanding I have of the legalese documents presented, it seems when the roads were designated in the NF MVUM's, the FS didn't follow procedure and get the roads for the signed off by the Fish & Wildlife per the ESA, or Endangered Species ACT.
    This is stated for the habitat of the Mexican Spotted Owl and the Preble Meadow Jumping Field Mouse.
    I'm not really sure if either of these species even habits here, and if so where is that proof?
    I don't pretend to understand the process involved, but it seems to me that is the jist of the lawsuit.
    It's a pretty broad stroke to list every road in the FS from Sedalia south to essentially Penrose.
    This includes all of the Pikes Peak Rd, all of Rampart Range Rd, Old Stage, all of Gold Camp, and everything in 717 area.
    There are private lands dispersed throughout these area's, and will seem to be impossible to close, not to mention PP Highway and the historical importance it has on our heritage and history, along with the other roads mentioned.
    I have been using these roads all of my life, and have watched as people migrate here and screw up what was once a great place to live.
    From trashing area's and resources, to suing the government with frivoles agenda's to suit their idea of what is good for them and us all.
    They have brought their warped ideas and entitled lack of sensibilities, and have perverted the Colorado I knew into some lame version of Kalifornia.
    The sad part is I don't want to go anywhere else, it's still better here than anywhere.
    #23
  4. dickensheets

    dickensheets smprparatus

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    assfault - "They have brought their warped ideas and entitled lack of sensibilities, and have perverted the Colorado I knew into some lame version of Kalifornia.
    The sad part is I don't want to go anywhere else, it's still better here than anywhere."

    Cheers bro. You nailed it.

    I grew up in Kalifornia. Escaped to Colorado. Had to bail.

    Now I'm in NM.

    Come explore. Beers on me. It's quieter here. Nobody here has ever heard of REI.

    Ryan
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  5. dmac1

    dmac1 Long timer

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    Sooo, pretty much all southern front range trails are being challenged (i.e. all those in Exhibit A). It seems likely that the trails in Exhibit B are gonna be gone. I didn't see reference to Exhibit C in the Settlement. Did I miss it?

    CJ...you objected that things are settled without 'our' advocates being involved. I don't think thats right....its a 4 year old lawsuit and COHVCO, TPA and BRC represented us. I am not sure if any of those entities advised us that this was in the works...if they did, I missed it.

    Sooo, now the question is, whats the liklihood that the Mexican spotted owl or the damn jumping mouse is in the areas in question? Isn't that the only real basis of the lawsuit and upon which we may lose the trails (absent the FS just saying eff it and caving to the eviro-weenies without a fight)?

    Another avenue we might want to take is to get ahold of our advocacy groups and volunteer to help.

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  6. dmac1

    dmac1 Long timer

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    Why do you accuse the FS of rolling over? We had our 3 major advocacy groups involved and they too concurred. Apparently there was an eff up as Assfault identified and now, thanks to the eviro-weenies who sued, the FS has to jump through major hoops.

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  7. dmac1

    dmac1 Long timer

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    You know what else guys? Rod was planning some more new ST at Rampart next year. I need to double check, but I think I saw in the Settlement that there will be no more new designations until the new MVUM is out. The Settlement gives the FS 5 years to do everything including produce new MVUM as a result of the process, but it can be extended.

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  8. BuffHunter

    BuffHunter Been here awhile

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    Any chance of enlisting the hunters and fishermen? These roads and trails are their access, too. And they are a recognized driver of local economies.
    #28
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  9. _CJ

    _CJ Rugged Individualist

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    Yes, it's interesting that one of the early responses in this thead was encouraging people to give more money to some of the people who sold us down the river on this deal. Was this ever brought to the larger OHV community's attention, or did these groups just keep it hush-hush? Where is COHVCO's explanation of what happened? Why would anyone give them another dime after the way this was handled?

    I don't know that there's any changing what has happened at this point. The case is settled. Given the slow response and action in the Bear Creek debacle, I'd be shocked if this is resolved in the next decade, but they sure don't waste any time shutting down the trails while everything is being evaluated, do they?
    #29
  10. dmac1

    dmac1 Long timer

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    'Only' the stuff in Exhibit B is closed soon. Or am I missing something??

    I realize that if those are what are most important to you then its not insignificant, but its not like everything is all of a sudden closed. In 5 years, yeah maybe if we lose vs the enviro weenies.

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  11. modette

    modette TrailTaker.com

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    Page 14 to 20
    #31
  12. dmac1

    dmac1 Long timer

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    Im on the road. What is page 14-20? If thats exhibit A then thats not how I read it. Threatened, yes, and needing to be justified that ok to be open via the usual process...you know...preferred alternative etc. The FS has 5 years to do this.

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  13. dmac1

    dmac1 Long timer

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    I'm stopped for lunch....as I thought, pages 14-20 is the list of threatened trails in Exhibit A. Read pages 1-9 as they are the meat of the agreement and therein they identify that the trails in Exhibit B will be closed in 1 year, slme on am interim basis. Of course, there are more details.

    Once I'm home I can help interpret the language if needed. I'm not a lawyer but have dealt with legal documents much more complex than this for many years in my job.

    That said, there are a couple things I'm not 100% sure what the intended meaning is. We may hafta ask our advocates for clarity on the intent.

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  14. singletrackslayer

    singletrackslayer Legalize singletrack

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    there goes every trail. I guess we will be able to ride anywhere we want soon. Because everything will be equally illegal and at least some of us will still ride regardless.
    #34
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  15. dmac1

    dmac1 Long timer

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    In case anyone is interested, here's some info on the friggin owl. Interestingly, the US Fish & Wildlife Service removed critical habitat designation for the owl in 1998, but were forced, by lawsuit in 2000, to again designate critical habitat for them on federal land in Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado and Utah. This was again revisited in 2003/2004.

    http://www.fws.gov/southwest/es/MSO_critical_habitat_archive.html

    Heres a map that is concerning to me as an individual whose 'home' riding areas are 717 and Rampart:
    http://www.fws.gov/southwest/es/Images/MSO_CH_images/MSO_CO_Proposed_CH_2003.jpg

    The red cross-hatched area is called 'proposed' critical habitat but there is a comment about it being final. Also, the area doesn't extend into either Teller or El Paso counties.

    Does anyone know someone at BRC, TPA or COHVCO that could get us the straight scoop?

    If we lose all southern front range riding, it'll impact those up north and further west too cuz I'm guessing we're all gonna ride somewhere and some will go further. So hopefully you guys up north will help us out when we get to that point....or if we get to that point.
    #35
  16. dmac1

    dmac1 Long timer

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    And here is some info about the mouse.

    December 2010: The Fish and Wildlife Service has revised the critical habitat designation for the Preble’s meadow jumping mouse designating approximately 411 miles of rivers and streams and 34,935 acres of streamside habitat in seven Colorado counties. This revision to the Service’s previous critical habitat designation adds an additional 177 miles of rivers and streams and 14,255 acres of adjacent habitat.

    Areas designated as critical habitat for the Preble’s meadow jumping mouse in Boulder, Broomfield, Douglas, El Paso, Jefferson, Larimer, and Teller counties include riparian corridors along rivers and streams, adjacent uplands, and areas that provide connectivity between and within populations.

    http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/preble/critical_habitat/criticalhabitatindex.htm

    The heavy marked section of Trout Creek on the map in the link below barely extends into Teller County and I'm not too clear on how much of Bear Creek or Sugar Creek that are marked in heavy dashed lines extends into the Rampart riding area. Anyone know?

    http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/preble/critical_habitat/sp13_final.jpg

    I'm far from sure if this and my post about the owl are the extent of the areas of concern, but if so, the issue isn't quite as bad as it first seemed, but the owl issue seems to cover most of Rampart. I could be wrong though and there could be more to it.
    #36
  17. stacksmasher

    stacksmasher Adventurer

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    Here are our adversaries. We need to start gathering information on these groups.... I think I just found my new Winter hobby ; )

    THE WILDERNESS SOCIETY
    QUIET USE COALITION
    WILDEARTH GUARDIANS
    ROCKY MOUNTAIN WILD
    GREAT OLD BROADS FOR WILDERNESS
    #37
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  18. _CJ

    _CJ Rugged Individualist

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  19. dirtydoug

    dirtydoug Been here awhile

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    ya i just noticed that too...

    dont forget air force academy ,, martin marietta.. good luck on that one


    hey maybe the army will help us....


    and what about all the county roads... and the hiways ..... make everybody walk ( with my hips & back im good for about 1/4 mile )


    and the hikers ... cant tell me that there's no damage..... ( i wish they would realize that there next )

    oh now i see the plan... CLOSE EVERYTHING TO EVERYBODY....






    .
    #39
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  20. RockyMtnScotsman

    RockyMtnScotsman Been here awhile

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    [​IMG]
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