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Discussion in 'The Rockies – It's all downhill from here...' started by jjmead1, Nov 18, 2015.
So that's all of 717, Rainbow Falls, some stuff out by Leadville, Salida, and the Pikes Peak area?
See my previous post (#72) where I identified most of the affected trails. I haven't done anything further at this point other than get paper copies of the MVUMs. Theres a bunch of roads also impacted, for example, on the southern end of Rampart Range Road a number of them will be closed very soon (the stuff in Exhibit B), which will further limit dispersed camping opportunities. As I recall, its not all of Rainbow Falls area, just some stuff. It is all of Rainbow Trail though!
Only 20 miles are closing right now the rest will be closed intermittently over a year for the environmental studies though if I'm reading the brief correctly?
16-18 miles will be at least temporarily closed within one year. My discussion with the FS led me to believe that will be done early next year.
The rest will be the subject of an EA but my read is that nothing will be closed until the process is completed...the FS has 5 years to do everything and can get an extension. I don't know what their anticipated schedule is.
I was clarifying the previous post when I lost my edit somehow...anyway, it appears to me that most of Rainbow Falls is impacted....theres only a few things that I've seen that aren't (e.g. 347, 348, 350, 351). I've never ridden there, so I'm not familiar with that area. See pages 1 & 2 of Exhibit A for a complete list of challenged trails...don't miss the A, B, C etc and all the 900 series.
I haven't ridden everything thats challenged, so I'm simply going off Exhibit A and trying to find the trails/roads on maps.
The forest service has started a Q&A on this and they will expand them as questions come in. Whats not clear? Ask em! The Q&A is under Project Documents and there is a link for comments/questions on the right side.
At this point, we could tell the FS our questions and suggestions. Examples of what we can tell them:
If you ride a particular area and think a certain road would be better off as a trail (perhaps its redundant) and if it were a trail, you could legally ride it with a sticker and you could make a nice loop with another trail;
If there is a trail that could be a nice loop if there were a connector of some sort to make it complete;
If there are roads or trails that are dangerous and should be revised or eliminated;
If there are some great overlooks that are being missed.
You get the idea...in general, what will make the areas better.
In the not too distant future, the FS will publish a Notice of Intent and likely a few months after that they'll publish another document upon which we can comment. NOTE: If you choose not to comment, any objections you may have later to the proposed approach will be disregarded.
There will be a meeting in Woodland Park next Wednesday where the FS will be presenting information relating to the Badger Flats area near Lake George. Apparently this area will be or is great for children. How is this related? The approach the FS will follow on the Badger Flats project will likely be the same followed on the Pike San Isabel (PSI) issue.
Badger Flats Project - South Park Ranger District
The US Forest Service is asking for input on road, trail and camping changes in this area
Where is Badger Flats: This area, popular for camping and OHV recreation is on the east side of Wilkerson Pass and is most often accessed by Park County Roads #77 or #31. The Badger Flats area is near the USFS Round Mountain campground off of US Highway 24 and is about 6 miles northwest of Lake George, CO.
Why is the project and area important: This area provides unique opportunities for Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) riders (especially beginners) and families and provides multiple and diverse camping opportunities. The area is approximately 60 miles west of Colorado Springs and is a popular destination for people living along the southern Front Range.
Why is it important to get involved?
The USFS is proposing changes and modifications to the existing trail and road network and camping locations.
There are new routes and loops proposed along with some trail closures.
If users of the Badger Flats area, like OHV users and campers, do not review and provide feedback on the USFS proposed changes and modifications, the USFS will base their decisions using their own judgement and experience and or the input provided by others. There are several groups and individuals that feel OHV recreation and camping in the Badger Flats area should be reduced or eliminated. This is your opportunity to share your ideas with the USFS Decision Makers, and let them know what opportunities, places and activities in Badger Flats are important to you.
What can I do?:
The South Park Ranger District is hosting an informational Open House for the public on Thursday, December 17, 2015 at the Woodland Park Library (large meeting room) at 218 East Midland Ave. Woodland Park, CO 80863 from 6:00 PM to 7:45PM.
The Open House will allow the public to review the project, ask questions and gather more information. This will be an informational sharing event.
Maps showing the proposed changes and modifications to the area can be viewed here along with the Official USFS Notice: http://www.fs.usda.gov/project/?project=48069
When making specific comments about this project, here are a few suggestions to think about:
o Do the new proposed routes provide access to locations and recreational places you want to go to?
o Are the proposed designated camping areas in the locations that make sense, are they in locations where you would want to camp and do the proposed camping locations provide access to the activities you desire to do?
o Are there other opportunities to connect or loop other routes that should be explored by the USFS?
o Does the network of routes take you were you want to go, to see the sites you want to see and enable you to do the activities that are important to you?
Where do I send my comments?:
• Comments must be received at the South Park Ranger District by January 4, 2016.
• Written comments should be submitted to:
o Badger Flats Management Project, C/O Josh Voorhis, District Ranger, South Park Ranger District PO Box 219, Fairplay, CO 80440
o Electronically by the web: https://cara.ecosystem-management.org/Public/CommentInput?Project=48069
Who's going? I'll be there to put in my 2 cents...
I am going, told the wife last night.
I might try and document going. You know to show others what it's like in these processes. My one complaint is the last minute notices you get about these things. They always seem so hot to trot to make changes that affect people, how about letting the comment period take some time, and hold a bunch of meetings!
Well... I thought someone told me last week that the meeting was Wedn. I'm here....no one else is. Now I see its the 17th. Crap. Aint drivin down again tomorrow.
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Some questions to ask the USFS when you send in your concerns. Provided by Bill at the meeting tonight, THANK YOU
For those that missed the meeting
Regarding the Pike/San Isabel issue, hopefully some of you have thought of some good comments for things we'd like to see improved upon in the impacted areas. I came up with a pretty good one for 717, but I'm not sure if posting them here is a good idea, so prolly best to keep your ideas to yourselves for now. Ya never know who is reading this and how they might turn something against us.
To that end, I'd like to come up with an email group that we could use to communicate with each other 'off line'. You know....share ideas and such. Please PM me if you're interested in joining such a group. It'll be kinda like an email club.
Please be aware and not offended that, if I receive a PM from someone I don't recognize, I may ask for someone to vouch for them as legit.
Got this from COHVCO today in email
Litigation involving the Pike/San Isabel NF Travel Management
We wanted to update you on recent developments on the Pike/San Isabel NF. The USFS recently settled a challenge to the analysis of approximately 500 miles of routes on the NF. TPA was an intervenor in this action.
1. The Settlement did not close any routes- it only requires NEPA analysis of these routes within a year.
2. TPA has brought in a consultant to facilitate coordination of issues/information/resources with all parties and represent all OHV issues. He is working with each Ranger District to understand issues land managers are specifically facing involving trails and to insure that they understand the importance of multiple use trails and OHV recreation on public lands to users and the economy of communities.
3. Settlement of this challenge may allow several trail building projects on the PSI to move forward.
4. Implementation of the Settlement will take several years and the support of many individuals/clubs and Organizations in addition to the TPA efforts. We will keep you up to date with information on meetings and comment periods as the process moves forward.
Fixed .... and the support of many individuals/clubs and Organizations in addition to the TPA efforts.
RE: Pike/San Isabel Litigation - 500 miles of potential impact
(e.g. TRAILS at 717, Rainbow Trail, Rainbow Falls, Lake Isabel + more and tons of ROADS and CAMPING SPOTS)
If any of you want to join a group who will strategize on important points for when it is time to comment, please send me a PM with your email contact info. The idea is to combine our knowledge OFF LINE so that our comments will be as impactful as possible.
If I don't recognize your name, I may ask for confirmation that you ride.
Has anyone thought of any suggestions on what improvements/modifications we can suggest to the forest service (FS)? I'm told that I'm the only one who has suggested anything. I don't know if that is true or not. I'm afraid that alot of individuals who might be interested, aren't reading the forum because it is winter.
In any event, I hope to start highlighting the MVUMs with threatened trails and I hope to post up pictures or something so that you all can have a visual of the magnitude of this.
Be aware that we know that those who wish to close everything watch this site and hence my desire to get a group together so we can share ideas offline. I've gotten some interest in that regard, but not as much as I'd hoped. To those who have responded, thank you! I'll be sending out an initial group message pretty soon.
The expectation is that the FS will be issuing their notice of intent in a couple months, and we'd be best served if we could have some comments ready.
Be aware that we know that those who wish to close everything watch this site
good....then ill say the same thing i said on the other thread.........
when are these environmentalists ( and ya this is for you to read ) ....... going to realize that after they throw us off OUR OWN land .... THEY ARE NEXT !!!! .......see agenda 21........ wildlife corridors..... NO PEOPLE AT ALL !!!!!!!!! GOD I HATE IGNORANT PEOPLE.... happening so slow they dont see it.....
you environmentalists need to educate yourselves......( do you really want to spend your life in a 300sqft "tiny house" in some high rise.. and the only nature you see is an image in your wall... remember.... NO PEOPLE ALLOWED )
if people ( hikers, campers, hunters, bikers, even just people........ everybody ) want to use public lands they need to stop this now... this land belongs to ALL the people.... not the government !!!!!!
Perhaps these environmentalists are "agenda 21'ers"...
Don't know how many of you use Reddit, but just saw this today on /r/Colorado - lots of haters in there.
In a quick review, I saw few properly informed comments. Yours are some of the few.
What alot of people dont understand is that the enviro weenies are taking advantage of the USFS' inability to provide evidence that proper due diligence was done in evaluating these roads and any potential impact on the spotted owl and jumping mouse. It was done but cant be proved. So they sued and now the USFS has to waste precious $ to go through this entire process. We may lose some roads and dispersed campsites as a result....as you pointed out. Good job BTW and THANKS!!!
Last I heard, it could be June/July when the USFS finally publishes their Notice of Intent, which is when we'll be able to provide our comments. I dont really know...but the initial target of April has been missed.
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