Putting a 1988 Suzuki Kan of Tuna back on the road

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by mrchristian, Feb 17, 2018.

  1. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    4 pack for under $60...

    https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_od...t.TRS0&_nkw=GSX600F+carb+rebuild+kit&_sacat=0


    I lover Harbor Freight, but there are much better snap ring pliers out there.

    I've been happy with these:
    http://www.sears.com/craftsman-professional-retaining-ring-pliers-internal-external/p-00947412000P
    #41
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  2. mrchristian

    mrchristian Been here awhile

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    Good find - I'll order those if any of the carbs start puking out the overflow.

    Those look nice! The biggest issue though (and it seems that these have the same problem) is that the pliers won't fit into the bore. So I have the needles extended all the way out which makes the whole thing flexy - so I guess in a sense I'm not really using them right. But maybe that isn't the case with the Sears ones.
    #42
  3. baloneyskin daddy

    baloneyskin daddy bikaholic

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    You're correct that even the craftsman pliers don't work.Motion Pro makes pliers specifically designed for this purpose. Get the angled ones as they allow a view of the clip at the bottom of the bore where as the straight ones block your view.
    #43
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  4. mrchristian

    mrchristian Been here awhile

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    I saw those, was hoping to avoid dropping $40 on a pair of very specific (likely) one time use pliers. Going to put the ring back in with the HF pliers and gently slide it down until it clicks with a pick/flathead screwdriver.

    That's the plan anyway.
    #44
  5. mrchristian

    mrchristian Been here awhile

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    Short wrench session - Managed to extract all pistons on one caliper. Screwdrivers, wood pieces, fingers were mega frustrating. Zipties worked great.

    [​IMG]

    Still working on the other caliper, one last piston refuses to let go. Might hit it again with the grease gun.
    #45
  6. neppi

    neppi Been here awhile

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    Grease gun is excellent for the super-stuck ones. It's tender, but you can put crazy pressure in there. It's messy, but you were to clean them anyway, right? Scoop the vaz out to a jar and U can re-use it in some other applications, like your workmates pockets...

    Good job on the build! Keep 'em coming!
    #46
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  7. mrchristian

    mrchristian Been here awhile

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    After hitting the pistons a hundred times with 100psi of air I finally gave up and greased gun'd the second caliper. Only way to get them to move, an invaluable trick. All the help from you guys is fantastic. Projects like this can move a lot quicker in the internet age - all of your guys' amazing help, fast internet shipping, Youtube videos.

    Stripped them down, cleaned the insides out as best I could and took all the nasty seals out.

    [​IMG]

    Reassembled with new seals - I ordered some cheap ones labeled "Outlaw Racing" and received nice All Balls seal kits. Works for me - everything fit.

    [​IMG]

    Spent a few hours fiddling with the master cylinder. Pumping endlessly for a bit (the line wasn't tightened down enough), then the lever went rock hard solid (clogged master cylinder brake line), then clogged lower left line. Got ONE of the brakes to work - GOOD ENOUGH!

    Ride around the block - runs really bad but it RUNS!

    [​IMG]
    #47
  8. mrchristian

    mrchristian Been here awhile

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  9. mentolio

    mentolio Been here awhile

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    Ok, sorry if this is a dumb question, but sometimes it's the simple things...
    The kit is for a vacuum operated petcock, so assuming you have one and are hooking the vacuum (hand pump) line up to the fuel feel pipe...no, that should not happen. Assuming of course this is the case, I just want to make sure you ARE hooking up the vacuum line from the engine to the petcock, right?

    Next question: have you checked for vacuum leaks at the carburetor insulators (rubber boots that connect the carbs to the head)? With bike idling, and no messing with the throttle, spray a little carb cleaner or WD40 on the rubber insulators, specifically where they meet the head, and see if the idle goes up. If so, you need new orings under them, or whole new insulators (which should be easily available from K&L if not Suzuki).
    #49
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  10. mentolio

    mentolio Been here awhile

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    ....also, see how the bike runs on a gravity fed bottle vs. the fuel tank (if you haven't already). You can make a remote fuel bottle out of an old 2 liter coke bottle and a tire valve stem with the valve removed (like an I.V. Bottle). It'll likely leak before long, but should work well enough to safely see how the bike runs and synchronize the carbs.

    If it seems like it's starving for fuel, the most common causes (especially for an old bike) are usually:
    Clogged pilot jets
    Tight valves
    Air leaks***this is the big one that usually gets me!
    And of course, poor/impeded fueling (rust in tank, clogged/faulty fuel petcock, stuck float valve in one or more carbs, etc.)

    If you're getting fuel leaking past the vacuum valve in the petcock, the problem is less likely a "fuel impediment," and more likely something else. Hook your vacuum hand pump up to the vacuum valve pipe (usually small and faces down) and apply some suction. If fuel begins to flow freely from the petcock, I'd probably look elsewhere.
    #50
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  11. mrchristian

    mrchristian Been here awhile

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    To bench test the tank I hooked up a Mitivac to the vaccuum line on the petcock. Gas came straight out the vaccuum line and nothing out the fuel line. I've been hooking up the vaccuum line to the bike when running it.

    I went ahead and picked up a K&L repair kit (Johnson and Wood miraculously had in stock) which turns out isn't the correct application even though K&L's own org chart says it is. The circular metal sealer on the diaphram is too tall.

    As you can see the one on the right is taller than the OEM squat one:

    [​IMG]

    It doesn't sit correctly:

    [​IMG]

    Installed it and nothing flows out of anywhere with any type of suction.

    I emailed K&L to let them know, if anyone checks their customer service email.
    #51
  12. mrchristian

    mrchristian Been here awhile

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    I cleaned the carbs three times now but in all likelyness there is probably something still gunked up in there. Was really, really meticulous but who knows. Might give it the Pinesol bath treatment like everyone suggests.

    Adjusted the valves, pretty confident those are good.

    Air leaks - almost absolutely. Every bit of rubber is bad on this thing.

    But the petcock is definitely bad I'm pretty sure. I have a clear FRAM fuel filter and it empties out when I switch from Prime to Reserve when riding.
    #52
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  13. mentolio

    mentolio Been here awhile

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    Not that I would ever suggest doing this long term, but you could just cut a gasket and replace the diaphragm with it, eliminating the need for vacuum to the petcock (basically make it free-flowing all the time). Plug vacuum port from engine, and see if it helps in the running department.

    If cleaning the carbs means with a can of carb cleaner, then you should absolutely soak those suckers! Pull all the removable stuff out (jets, floats, seat, etc), then drop it all in your pine sol bucket (overnight or longer). I use an old spring from an axle seal (cut and stretched) to jam through all the pilot jets, and the slight "spiral" does a nice job of scraping out any obstruction. Then I always use an air compressor and my "blow-gun" with rubber tip to blast a ll crap out of every orifice/jet/passage/etc. You'll be surprised where varnish will get to.

    Do the carb insulator check too. If just one of those buggers is sucking air, it'll make the bike run like total garbage (and it's NEVER just one!).
    #53
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  14. mrchristian

    mrchristian Been here awhile

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    Not a bad idea except sort of nervous that will flood/hydrolock the engine, especially since the float valves can't really be trusted.

    I did the can + air compressor route. The inside looks pretty darn clean, even scrubbed every little bit of build up in the caps. Was hoping hitting the pilot+main+needle would get it going 90% and a bit of Seafoam would get the rest but not looking like that's the case. I got a bunch of Pine Sol ready to go. My only hang up is I have to press out the pins to get the floats out and nothing is leaking right now.

    I went ahead and ordered a new Petcock from K&L. Kind of against the spirit of this project but only $20 more than another possibly not functioning rebuild kit. I could order another diaphram from a mystery eBay seller but I feel like they all get their parts from the same factory.

    The K&L rebuild kit was a dud, hopefully I can get my $30 back.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HTXWHG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Pretty sure the example picture is super wrong but the part is right according to K&L's website. It also lines up with Amazon's vehicle part compatibility tool which has been supringly 100% accurate so far with brake seals, air filters, oil filters, etc along with a ton of stuff I needed for my truck. Normally I wouldn't trust it but it hasn't screwed up yet.

    Amazon vehicle part tool is kind of useless if you just want to see what's available for your bike as it's clogged with generic garbage like tank protectors and pot metal footpegs.
    #54
  15. baloneyskin daddy

    baloneyskin daddy bikaholic

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    You can plug the vacuum line to the petcock and run it on prime and just remember to turn the fuel to either on or reserve when parking it for the day.Its basically turning it off since the petcock doesn't work properly. Also if you decide to use the Mighty Vac to test the new one only give it about a quarter of a pump to activate the diaphragm as it takes very little vacuum to activate and not a whole hell of a lot more to ruin it. Never blow compressed air thru a diahram petcock.
    #55
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  16. grub61

    grub61 mild mannered maniac

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    I had a stuffed petcock on the Suzuki freewind that I just finished getting roadworthy. I just replaced it with a plain non-vacuum one , and blocked off the vacuum hose. Just have to remember to turn the fuel tap on and off when starting / stopping.

    Graham
    #56
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  17. neppi

    neppi Been here awhile

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    I don't know about these suzis, but in Hondas the vac petcock works also as a "fuel pump" a bit.

    In my DRs (200) I have original manual old school taps, whereas the same DRs up in the States have vac petcocks which seem to fail.

    You need to have the screw holes the same, and the middle hole of course, and you can fit anything that suits. You'll most def fix one problem with the new petcock!

    Just make your life easier, tear down the carbiezzz and whack them in a slow cooker with a generous amount of Pine SOL or lemon juice, dry them out with compressed air (bottle or compressor) and carb cleaner and put em back together. Stock settings for the mixture and make yourself a carb synching tool (super easy! YouTube it!).

    Bleeding the brakes in these mofos can be a pain! Take Ur time to make it right and "Bob's your uncle!"
    #57
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  18. mrchristian

    mrchristian Been here awhile

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    New K&L petcock. Spot on replacement.

    No response from K&L on the rebuild kit (I'm SHOCKED they have zero customer service...not really). I wonder if the diaphram works in their petcock? Guess I'll store it in a drawer and hope it fits if I/next owner need(s) it one day.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Everyone complaints about these not having enough power but it makes more than the contemporary Ducati 750 of the time and only weighs 10lbs more. Seems OK for a entry level bike to me. The most powerful bike I've ever owned is my WR and this almost has double the power so should be plenty for me!
    #58
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  19. mrchristian

    mrchristian Been here awhile

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    Stuck some Seafoam in the gas tank, let it sit for a few days, started it up in the garage today - ran a lot better but still maniacally idles at whatever RPM it feels like. Running it with the airbox on - need to figure out the best sequence to tighten down the airbox clamps, there's barely any room anymore now that everything is fit back in.

    Too late to give it another rip around the block as it doesn't have a kickstand (maximum annoying) and don't want to push it in the dark when it inevitably dies. Petcock seems to be working though which is cool.

    Back brake master cylinder rebuild. The clevis is a royal PITA to detatch (positioned inside the wheel and held by the smallest, sharpest pin ever) so I just loosened lock nut and spun the whole master cylinder around to detach it. Messy but worked.

    [​IMG]

    Much easier to swap the seals on this one as the snap ring isn't as difficult to reach. Plus way less rust and contamination.

    Don't have a rear caliper seal kit for the rear yet, will have to order.

    Front brake isn't actuating the brake light, will have to figure that out.

    I got to figure out how all the rubber tubes route. Didn't take good enough pictures - pretty sure there's just two rubber lines that hook to the carb bodies to act as overflow (and route over the airbox) and one big tube on the bottom of the gas tank that acts as some sort of breather or overflow. Not totally sure but there's a big rubber tube that runs toward the back of the bike.

    Need to sync the carbs at some point - hoping I can borrow a carb sync tool rather than making a 4ft tall contraption as I've seen on Youtube.

    I had a pipe dream to do a Land Speed race once - they do it near me out in the desert at a place called El Mirage. I rode my dual sport out there and visited a race once. Maybe this will be the bike. Maybe not.
    #59
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  20. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    Easy DIY carb sync tool.

    [​IMG]
    #60
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