R1200GSw LC Wethead Final Drive change and Spline Lube Pictorial!

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by JimVonBaden, Mar 11, 2016.

  1. Dorian

    Dorian huge carbon footprint

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    Sorry I should've been more clear. I was curious as to the cause of the driveshaft front u-joint failure. The rear FD spline rust and lube thing I'm well aware of.
  2. eri

    eri Long timer

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    u-joints have been failing since at least 1987 and the first paralever GS bikes

    the were rarely an issue on the non-paralever driveshafts of
    the 50hp G/S and 90hp k100

    seems to be the increased travel angle that GS bikes work them and steadily increasing power of the engines pushing heavier bikes

    ie they are slightly under-spec'd for the job

    but bmw does a fairly reasonable job of keeping the design up to scratch, it's not an especially common failure given the mileage most have done by the time they fail and the cost in chains and sprockets that other bikes would have chewed through over that time
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  3. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid! Supporter

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    :nod It is also worse on the GSA's taller suspension.
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  4. eri

    eri Long timer

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    yes, even more of an angle to work through, transmitting more power for the heavier, less aerodynamic bike

    and i suspect more u joints fail in the usa as riders tend to ride greater distances at higher speeds with bigger loads than the rest of us
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  5. bruceca2002

    bruceca2002 Been here awhile Supporter

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    The splines on my 2019 GS were lubed and looked as good as new, 8800 kilometres
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  6. Qsmkiv

    Qsmkiv Been here awhile

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    I posted my driveshaft failure more to note that there might be an aftermarket alternative soon that will be rebuildable, cheaper, and hopefully a stronger design for the LC. That being said, this is the 1st failure on the bike with over 47k miles and 4 years of use and I really can’t complain. I keep up on the maintenance and the driveshaft had no rust and my splines were well lubed. On a positive note, the driveshaft delivered today from A&S and installed fine. It could have been worse and it is what it is, as it’s part of the game. I’ll see if this new BMW shaft lasts another 47k miles?
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  7. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid! Supporter

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    To be fair, your DS failure was premature by half normal or more, on average. Just the luck of the draw and you got the short stick.

    Good attitude though! :thumb
  8. Daleah

    Daleah Long timer

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    You calling me fat? LOL I resemble that remark!
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  9. fitty ate

    fitty ate Adventurer Supporter

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    2016 1200GS.
    JVB, and all others watching this thread, I have a theory. (I'm sure others have come up this too, but I can't find the right threads). The theory is:

    The driveshaft circlip on my bike is not "substantial" enough to hold the driveshaft in place at the transmission shaft under normal riding conditions.
    This causes the driveshaft to slide forward/backward on the transmission shaft, popping the circlip in and out of the transmission shaft groove.
    This results in the intermittent "clunk" felt in the foot pegs by me and other riders.

    i am going to test this theory by replacing the circlip. I will measure both old and new, install, then test. I have a new circlip, ordered from Bob's BMW. $7 delivered. My question is this:
    What is the best/easiest way to remove the old circlip?
    Thanks in advance!

    Additional info:
    I thought my circlip was missing too - but it's there. Clean out the splines and run a small flat blade up and down the splines - you'll see it pop out on one side or the other.
    Also, it took minimal almost no effort to move the driveshaft rearward off the transmission shaft. Never felt a "pop" - just very slight resistance. - driveshaft off
  10. paschalis

    paschalis gone4riding

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    Inspection and maintnance yesterday,
    Odometer 19000 km and everything seems OK.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
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  11. pistole

    pistole Long timer

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    no.

    the drive klunk is a combination of lash in the gearbox and the final drive. The mating tolerances on the splines for the driveshaft are pretty solid.

    and re the circlip : on my 2014 , its shaft does not have a circlip. I think it was not replaced during a drive shaft service (a long long time ago at the dealer) and when I worked on it recently , the clip was no where to be seen. Works the same. Klunks the same too.
  12. fitty ate

    fitty ate Adventurer Supporter

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    Just to clarify, this is not the "clunk" felt when shifting gears. This is a "clunk" felt in straight and level flight. Some guys have said they feel it when passing over minor frost heaves on fairly decent paved roads. So...

    I disagree. I replaced the circlip last weekend with a new one and the "clunk" is gone. I recommend you order a circlip ($7.00), install it, and see if it works for you.

    The circlip in my driveshaft had spread out, causing it to sit deeper in the drive shaft groove. This gave the circlip less profile to engage the transmission shaft. It was very easy to slide the driveshaft off the transmission shaft - like there was nothing holding it in place.

    I dug the old circlip out and replaced it with a new one. Had to compress the new one (slightly close the "C") to get it to snap into the driveshaft groove. Right away I could see the profile was more significant. Then, when I reinstalled the driveshaft, I had to use a rubber mallet to seat it. Before it just slid right up to the end of the splines. Here is a picture of it properly seated.
    IMG_0451.JPG
    Took it out for a test ride. 150 miles with 3 stops. Did some aggressive accelerations and tried to get the suspension to bounce around some. "Clunk" is gone.
    Its worth a try.
    Note: this was a "clunk" - not that faint ticking you can feel in the pegs (especially with the rubber inserts removed).
  13. Coastal Beemer

    Coastal Beemer Loven Adventuren Supporter

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    Nothing really new here. Just to add to the list of bikes with the problem. I have a 2018 1200 GSA still under warrantee with 7K miles and some water crossing. Just now looked at the FD splines. Seized up tight. After a week of trying, JVB wedge trick wasn't getting it for me . With more aggressive action, I got it apart but not without collateral damage. Now have to replace drive shaft, one boot and FD shaft seal. I tried to get two different dealers to agree it should have been under warranty, but they both said that the problem was just maintenance and was not covered, so I continued on my own. I guess I should have just traveled the 150 miles to have a dealer service it and paid for the service. I might have come out better? Looks like parts will total close to $1,400.
  14. Newbusa

    Newbusa Long timer

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    Except the dealers don’t include greasing the splines in their regular service,not even the big service. Mine was also seized when I checked it just after the big service.
  15. Mr Pou

    Mr Pou Been here awhile Supporter

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    So, if splines seize, what is BMWs take on that? If they seize do they really need to be repaired?
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  16. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid! Supporter

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    Under warranty they should replace the driveshaft and final drive. Do they need to be replaced? It depends if they can get them apart without damage, I have, and clean them up and lube them, I have.
  17. MattF44

    MattF44 Been here awhile Supporter

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    I did a little searching but haven't found what is considered to be the conventional wisdom is in terms of the appropriate service interval for re-greasing the splines? I have a new-to-me 2017 with 5k miles and think I'll take a look this winter.

    What are you using to remove any rust from the splines? Navy Jelly or just a wire brush?
    Is Loctite 8012 acceptable -- I have some and it is 65% moly

    Sorry for the remedial questions. I've never had a bike with a driveshaft, so these are uncharted waters.
  18. jdub

    jdub Dawg bytes reel gud Supporter

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    I first looked at the final drive splines on my 2014 when I did the 12k mile service; some grease evident with no rust. I lubed the splines with the excellent Guard Dog moly I have on hand (no longer available), and when I checked again at 48k miles everything was still perfect with lube still present.

    jweicht_SAM_0155_zps43ee7e11.jpg

    I often ride in rain and do the occasional off-road water crossing, and keep an eye on the top front of the final drive accordian boot as it pops open from time to time. Based on what I've seen so far, I plan on keeping to a schedule of 36k miles for inspection.
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  19. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid! Supporter

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    It somewhat depends on your riding style and type. I always recommend it be done by the 6K service, sooner if you go off road in wet conditions. I have seem them rust frozen at 2500 miles, and perfect at 50K miles. Best to set the baseline and do it sooner rather than later. Once thoroughly lubed, they tend not to give any issues. Still, if going off road a lot, or in wet conditions, best to do it every 6K, 12-18K if you are a pure road fair weather rider.

    As for lube, any water resistant grease with moly in it is fine, seal the boot with lithium or similar grease.
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  20. Travman

    Travman Long timer Supporter

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    Got a question on the seized splines. If you find the splined seized solid but all else is fine, does it really matter until another issue comes up. Since BMW does not consider this a maintenance item and you’re changing the rear oil as scheduled, so what if the splines seize. Thoughts?