Rally-Raid Products Honda CB500X

Discussion in 'Vendors' started by ktmmitch, Sep 22, 2014.

  1. Cruz

    Cruz Lost but laughing.

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    JMo, I am trying to understand how you increase travel on the oem forks? Won't the slider always be the same overlap into the fork legs or do you fit some kind of spacers to the bottom of the slider to raise it up a bit?

    Here is a photo of the springs and spacer from the 500X and the 600 Transalp.

    [​IMG]

    They are identical in length. I had the exact same amount of travel using both sets of springs.

    Fitted the longer Transalp springs , but even though they are heavier than standard springs they were way too light for the 500X. Had to change it all back again. Yet in the 600 forks the travel is a lot better, so maybe it is the Emulators and work on the rods that make it better.
    #81
  2. novaman64

    novaman64 Some sumo guy

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    There is a bushing that isnt on the spring, I believe its attached to the sanction which is what limits the up travel. By going to a smaller (veritcally) bushing you will get more up travel which will obviously increase overall travel.
    #82
  3. ktmmitch

    ktmmitch Long timer

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    There is no bushing to limit the stroke,it is done by the damper rod, which we have had made longer, to increase the stroke.This does reduce the overlap, by the same amount, but we are happy that the CB500X has a large overlap to start with.
    #83
  4. Cruz

    Cruz Lost but laughing.

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    Thanks Mitch, makes sense now. Great work.:clap
    #84
  5. snoman32

    snoman32 Adventurer

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    ktmmitch you may know the answer to this....and it will help with my decision:)!
    Will your Adventure Kit for the CB500X work with the CB500F too? My big question/concern is the fork "conversion". Is there enough room with the CB500F fork?
    I can't seem to find enough tech info online.
    Noob question I'm sure but I'm trying to decide between the bikes as I got the green light for a commuter bike and these two fit the bill BUT a mod like you are offering is exactly what I'm looking for!
    Thanks in advance!


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    #85
  6. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Unicorn breeder

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    Hi Max' - thanks for your concern, it's always worth pointing out things like this as it may well be a question others are asking too.

    All things being equal (that is tyre profile and width) the 19" front wheel is going to not turn as sharply as a 17" wheel, which is mainly why the supermoto guys run a smaller wheel (coupled with the fact there is a wider range of sticky tyres available in 17" size of course).

    However, the difference you will feel between a 110/80 x 19 TKC and a 120/70 x 19 TKC will be negligible at best.

    Similarly at the rear, I have run both 130 and 140 width 17" TKC tyres on my Yamaha Tenere, and also the 140 x 18 Michelin Desert (once I'd rally prepped it) which is more akin to a 150 in width - it's huge! - and if I'm quite honest with you, they made no discernible difference to the bike at all.

    Personally I think there is a lot of bullshit when it comes to tires - yes compound and tread pattern certainly make a difference - and moreso on street bike on street tyres... but there are so many variables once you start putting various tyres on bikes with different loads, suspension set-ups, even tyre pressures - this is why if you are looking for optimum performance for you, you get the bike set up properly, for you.

    Fundamentally of course, a big-block open treaded tyre like a TKC (or the equivalent dual-sport pattern tyre) is going to to be compromise over a more dedicated street tyre anyway, not least being a little physically heavier (rotational mass and all that) in comparison... I'd suggest any rider who is planning on undertaking an Adventure conversion to this bike is aware that their has to be a degree of compromise of the stock specification - you can't have it all ways?

    But rest assured, the wheel sizes we are proposing will allow you to fit a narrower width and or lower profile 19" front tyre if you desire (eg. a 110/80 vs 120/70), and similarly at the rear - you could certainly fit a 140 / 150 or even the 170 width depending on your personal preference and requirements.

    Jx
    #86
  7. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Unicorn breeder

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    Hi Snoman - I can answer this on behalf of our tech-guru... as we understand it, the physical fork lowers and uppers are the same across the CB500 range - therefore, the front spring kit/spacers and any damping cartridge style inserts will fit in all models.

    Similarly at the rear - the shock, linkage and swing arm all seem to be the same [dimensional specification] across the range too, so you could lift the rear the corresponding amount too.

    So yes, in effect, you could feasibly also have a CB500F with the 17 & 19" front wheel combo, and +30mm raised suspension.

    It is also our intention to offer a full-length* replacement spring kit that retains the standard ride-height for the CB500X (which is already a inch higher than the F and R model), which might be just as appropriate for you if you are planning on keeping the stock 17" wheels?

    Hope that helps...

    Jx

    *As opposed to the stock short-spring and plastic spacer combo that Cruz illustrates above.
    #87
  8. snoman32

    snoman32 Adventurer

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    Perfect!
    Was going to run your fork upgrade and whatever goodies you are going to offer and swap wheels accordingly.
    Then I think a "scrambled" CB500F is in order!!


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    #88
  9. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Unicorn breeder

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    Yes, and to clarify for anyone else similarly confused... as Cruz has ascertained, the stock CB500X spring spacer combo can be replaced by a far longer spring (there is approx 5 inches of plastic spacer on the stock set-up), of the same overall length - so the ride hight would remain the same, but hopefully the fork action feel a lot more plush.

    However, the Rally Raid Adventure kit will increase the length of the spring further to give an increase in both ride hight and overall travel (our current specification is going to be around 30mm - to 40mm max), with a correspondingly longer damper rod to take advantage of the increase in travel.

    For those not looking (or wishing) to increase the overall ride/height and travel, then RRP also intend to offer effectively a spring replacement kit (similar to that Cruz which was attempting with the 600 Transalp set) but at the correct weight and rate for the CB500X - so you would retain your standard ride hight and overall travel, with hopefully a more compliant and progressive spring. Couple this with a commercially available fork cartridge emulator insert, and you should have substantially better performance from the front suspension.

    Note that the company would will be producing the springs for both our standard ride height and +30mm 'Adventure' conversion, will also be engineering their own fully adjustable replacement fork cartridge inserts for the CB500X/F/R. These won't be a cheap upgrade, but will be of very high quality for those looking to upgrade any of the CB500 model range.

    I would add though, that for the majority of riders looking to 'Adventurise' the 500X in particular, once you have fitted the RRP +30mm spring kit and got your forks set-up correctly (with oil weight and air gap etc.) for your particular riding style, the need to have external adjusters on the front end is significantly diminished... and I would suggest (particularly for anyone on a limited budget) - that from a value for money point of view, you are probably wiser investing any additional money on the rear shock upgrade (including a remote preload adjuster) for example - which is likely to prove far more every-day noticeable and useful?

    Jx
    #89
  10. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Unicorn breeder

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    Hee hee - I can totally see that working! - wide MX bars and a Baja Designs La Paz 8" HID race light - nice!

    Jx
    #90
  11. snoman32

    snoman32 Adventurer

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    You know it!
    So looking forward to when the kits are ready....and next year is fine as I still have a few dollars to save lol!
    #91
  12. Maxacceleration

    Maxacceleration Off the grid

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    Thanks for the reply re tire sizes JMo. I have felt the differences going to wider tires over the years. I feel it adds gyroscopic weight & slows side to side transition.
    I aim to be on track for a new 500X (!). I hope to do 110/80 & 140/80 for sizing. Just a personal preference there...
    I think the 17/19", shock/fork upgrade, skidplate & high fender plus a slip-on muffler is THE hot ticket for this bike.
    Hopefully with minimal weight added (-lbs on muffler, +lbs on skidplate)...
    This could be my last bike!!! LOL (Ummm... probably not!)
    ...Following closely. :evil Thanks for the R & D!
    Cheers
    #92
  13. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Unicorn breeder

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    Hi Max' - no problem! - certainly the size combo you suggest above would also be my recommendation for anyone planning on riding dirt regularly (indeed it wasn't until recently I saw Continental also do a 120/70 19 to compliment their 120/70 17 front tyre), and as a point of interest, are the same sizes BMW spec for the current F700GS.

    I can also appreciate the nimble-ness and general 'flickability' of a bike running what these days are considered slightly 'narrower' (and corrispondingly lighter) tyres - and as you suggest, one of the key attributes of the CB500X in stock form is just how light and nimble it feels in the twisties...

    We certainly appreciate the variety of uses and owners requirements from this bike - and indeed the whole point of the Adventure conversion is to offer something that makes it even more versatile from stock - so we certainly don't intend to make any hard an fast rules regarding tyre size and choice that might limit that...

    Indeed, we would hope that from our own ongoing development testing, together with feedback from riders who are using the various different combos themselves, we would be able to draw up a comparison chart for other riders to consider?

    Jx
    #93
  14. TheJRM

    TheJRM HEY YOU GUYS!!!

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    I'm very, very excited to see where this all goes. I posted the following on a thread I started about the possible upcoming unveiling of the new Honda Africa Twin. In all honesty, I don't want or need a 1,000cc bike, and even the F800GS and 800XC are a little too big for my liking.

    My take on the ultimate ADV mid sized touring machine: I WISH there was something out there (in the US) that landed in that 400 - 600cc range that:

    1. Weighed closer to 400 lbs wet

    2. Offered the necessary protection for long stints on the HWY @ 70+ MPH

    3. The wheels, suspension and ground clearance to handle true adv riding/touring on more than just gravel/dirt roads

    4. Provided you with the range (250+ miles per tank) to get you where you want to go

    For what it's worth, I chose the X in the summer of 2013 because it offered #s 1, 2 & 4. I absolutely love how nimble and compact the bike is. I love the riding position. I love the fuel economy & range. But, make no mistake about it, I don't consider it an ADV bike; the bike bottoms out on 6" pot holes on dirt roads when riding @ 20 mph and is nothing more than a street bike in semi-ADV attire.

    My wife and I rode TW200s over 1,000 miles through the back roads of VT, NY and well into Canada (and back). We still have hers, and I am not at all ashamed to say that a small bike like the T-Dub inspires extreme confidence in ALL situations. The TWs offer nothing in the way of protection when it comes to highway miles, and the range leaves something to be desired (120 miles on a 1.2 gallon tank is still pretty damn good though!).

    Despite these facts, there's much to love about the TW: I've taken it trough rivers, up nasty off road climbs that no GS would dare attempt, down the highway @ 70MPH for hours on end (while loaded up with camping gear). The fact that it weighs about 300 lbs. fully fueled (with an awesome cyclerack rear rack!), and only has a seat height of just a hair under 31", allows you to get yourself and keep yourself out of trouble when things get hairy. Drop the bike? Easy to pick up. Rear or front wheel washing out? Put a foot down. None of this is as easy when you have a 500+ lb. bike with a 35" seat height between your legs.

    The X, in true ADV form, would be my near perfect definition of what a mid size ADV bike should be. If the new build can address issue #3 as listed above, I think it'll be a home run: A bike that allows you to travel comfortably on the highway, but still offers a glimpse of the nimble nature that you find in a bike like the TW200. The 17/19 combo would be more than sufficient. I think the biggest issue will prove to the the suspension situation and, for some, the fact that you can't disengage ABS (if your bike is equipped with it).

    Will be eagerly following this thread as it progresses.
    #94
  15. TheJRM

    TheJRM HEY YOU GUYS!!!

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    p.s. Read the following if you have a moment. Speaks volumes about the benefits of riding a smaller/lighter/lower machine for the type of ADV riding that 99% of people actually do. Also note the comments he makes about the number of GS and XCs he left in his dust en route - WHILE ON A SCOOTER!!!

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1002372 :eek1
    #95
  16. Murphy Slaw

    Murphy Slaw Long timer

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    There ya go.....
    #96
  17. Scott4769

    Scott4769 Adventurer

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    Sorry if I missed this elsewhere in the thread - how will the speedometer be affected by running larger diameter wheels?
    #97
  18. Maxacceleration

    Maxacceleration Off the grid

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    I think if the speedo is off, 12 O'clock Labs has a speedo calibrator unit - and for the CBX model too.
    #98
  19. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Unicorn breeder

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    I believe the speedo runs off the gearbox output shaft - so effectively the rear wheel. As such, the only difference in overall diameter is going to be a slightly deeper tread if you run a knobbly on the 17" spoked rear wheel (at this stage the 18" rear prototype we built is only being used as part of our ongoing development in conjunction with a 21" front), so the speedo will read pretty much the same - unless you change the sprocket sizes too of course.

    On the whole, speedos tend to read between 5-10% over anyway, so the slightly increased rolling circumference of a 17" TKC vs a street treaded 17" tyre in effect slows the wheel/reading down, so is likely to make it pretty much bang-on I would have thought?

    Anyone here already running a TKC80 150/70 (or 140/80) 17" rear who can confirm?

    Jx
    #99
  20. mikledog

    mikledog Adventurer

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    Any news on the silencer being developed. Will it be high like the bmw f800gs?