Rally-Raid Products Yamaha T7 Tenere

Discussion in 'Vendors' started by ktmmitch, Oct 16, 2019.

  1. ktmmitch

    ktmmitch Long timer

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    Yamaha-Tenere-700-Adventure-Motorcycle-3a.jpg

    We took delivery our long-awaited Yamaha T7 Tenere recently, and look forward to using, and improving this new middleweight adventure motorcycle from Yamaha.

    First impressions were very good, most notably the CP2 parallel-twin engine from the MT-07 street bike, it's a very torquey, economical & punchy motor, very much in the CRF1000L mode, but about 20% less output.

    It already comes stock with 21"/18" wheels, although tubed-type, and KYB suspension front and rear, with hydraulic preload adjustment on the remote-reservoir shock.

    Suspension travel is an adequate 200mm at the rear, 210mm up front, and the seat height of 875mm works well with most riders.

    If you're interested in our developments for a bike that we predict will be a revalation in the middleweight market, then follow our project....
    #1
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  2. ktmmitch

    ktmmitch Long timer

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    The first part of the project, after a few hundred miles running-in the motor and suspension, was to deliver the T7 to our partners Tractive Suspension in the Nederlands.Tractive Suspension design, develop and manufacture all the shocks and fork cartridge kits for Touratech Germany, as well as their own brands, and have a wealth of experience as ex-employees of the Dutch WP suspension company, before it was aquired by KTM Austria, and production moved to Austria.
    Their initial views, after some on and off-road riding,mirrored our findings, in that the rear shock was quite under sprung, and the forks oversprung, so were complete opposites.
    The damping, both compression and rebound on the OEM KYB shock showed reasonable performance when cycled on their shock dyno. The hydraulic preload adjuster can give up to 10mm of preload adjustment, and is very welcome for making easy adjustments to compensate for changes in weight, by either adding a passenger, luggage, or both, in order to achieve the correct sag.
    We were looking to achieve 10% static sag(low fuel and no rider) then 30% rider sag (with average 75kg rider sitting on the bike, feet on the footrests). Given the OEM 200mm rear wheel travel, this equated to 20mm static and 60mm rider sag.
    With 20% preload (2mm travel) and 75kg rider, the static and rider sag were much larger than required, and the OEM spring was tested by Tractive and found to be approximately 70Nm, and the only way to achieve the 10/30% sag measurement was to use a 65kg rider, so for most owners, the OEM spring is going to be too soft.
    The first development shock built was the same configuration as the OEM KYB unit, that is remote reservoir (piggy-back) with their own proven version of the hydraulic preload adjuster (HPA), and the same 10mm piston stroke, then high/low speed compression damping adjustment, and rebound adjustment. We also took the opportunity to add Tractive's own PDS system into the piston head assembly. Basically, this adds a second internal piston, that slows the final last few mm's of shock stroke by a hydraulic process, so taking pressure off the rubber bump stop, and minimising "bottoming out" often felt when riding large adventure bikes off-road. We have used the PDS system on the Tractive shocks for our KTM 690 Enduro and Rally bikes over the years, with great results.
    #2
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  3. ktmmitch

    ktmmitch Long timer

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    image.jpg 7AB46251-317F-49F0-8CA2-20A243084C50.jpeg
    #3
  4. ktmmitch

    ktmmitch Long timer

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    Here is a link to a brief video showing the function of the Tractive Extreme shock we will be using for the Yamaha T7 Tenere, it clearly shows the seconday piston on top of the main piston that slows the final shock stroke by entering a tapered sleeve, and the increasing hydraulic pressure reduces the piston speed.

    VIDEO LINK
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  5. ktmmitch

    ktmmitch Long timer

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    Another development of the remote reservoir Extreme Tractive shock leaving for UK T7 owner, Andy, who has already done 4,000 miles on his Tenere 700 around Europe, generally with pillion & luggage.
    This is shock gives the OEM travel of 200mm at rear wheel.
    He will be shipping his bike to Buenos Aries, Argentina, in 2 weeks for a fantastic 12 month trip around South & North America with his wife.
    Because of his requirements of maximum carrying capacity, we have removed the Hydraulic Preload Adjuster to gain the extra length to fit the longer 95Nm spring, which we found gave the perfect sag settings for full weight. But with the HPA fitted, the maximum safe spring rating is 85Nm, which fine for solo rider, and pillion, or luggage, but not normally both.
    So Andy decided that he would happily exchange the easy to use HPA in exchange for a heavier spring, which can be adjusted by the normal threaded preload ring, as they will not be changing the load of the T7 for their year away.

    Also in the box is our first Universal Spanner to remove front & rear wheel spindles from the T7, as Yamaha decided not to supply any tools with the OEM toolkit to do this !!
    IMG_0252.JPG
    #5
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  6. Belgradian

    Belgradian Been here awhile

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    Thanks for getting started on this bike, Yamaha will sell a bunch of them!
    #6
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  7. fridolin

    fridolin Been here awhile

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    I want this spanner!
    #7
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  8. Calibre

    Calibre Canadian, eh.

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    Hey! Go back to the DR threads. :lol3 Buddy!
    #8
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  9. Belgradian

    Belgradian Been here awhile

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    I want a DR AND a t700!
    #9
  10. Calibre

    Calibre Canadian, eh.

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    That's some pretty severe overlap. :deal

    Ktmmitch, what are the chances there will be a pro offroad suspension available for this beast? I'm still an offroader at heart, since my last bicycle had Marzocchi USD forks with 190mm travel. :roflI'm just an explorer though. I'm not expecting to hit the MX track and kill it on a 450lb machine, but I might do it for fun! It's more about higher-speed control, being able to loft front wheel and the rear being able to take the hit, etc.
    #10
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  11. powder85

    powder85 Been here awhile

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    +1 here
    #11
  12. ktmmitch

    ktmmitch Long timer

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    We will have 25 available end of October
    #12
  13. Neil_The_Wheel

    Neil_The_Wheel Long timer

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    @ktmmitch ,
    While you are working on the T7 parts please produce a set of the Rally Raid shorty clutch and brake levers.

    I had a set of these on my CB500X and I really liked them. Having a custom, high quality lever under your control fingers for every shift or braking action was a real enhancement to the machine and I would like another set for my T7 when they finally arrive in the US.

    Good to see you optimizing the suspension: I will probably end up with RR Suspension on this bike as I really enjoyed your setup on the CB and found that put that bike on a completely different level. The T7 comes with some better suspension direct from Yamaha (the CB stock setup was quite poor) but I have learned to appreciate quality suspension more than any other modification on a motorcycle and I will likely end up with your full offering once again.

    Keep up the good work and glad to see that you are riding again after your hip replacement.
    #13
  14. ktmmitch

    ktmmitch Long timer

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    We intend to offer a range of suspension, developed by ourselves in conjunction with Tractive Suspension in Nederlands. These will be over 3 ranges, Rally, Extreme and Overland.
    Rally will be "Plus 30mm" travel Remote Reservoir Tractive shock, with high/low speed compression adjustment, seperate rebound adjustment, and Twin-Piston PDS (to cope with big hits), we have decided to drop the hydraulic preload option in favour of gaining more room to fit a longer spring, in order to offer spring rates up to 95Nm. Preload can be adjusted by conventional threaded locknut ring.
    Rally fork option will be a Closed-Cartridge Tractive fork kit, plus 30mm travel over OEM,with seperate legs for rebound & compression damping adjustment, and preload adjustment in both the fork caps. These will fit into the OEM fork legs.

    Extreme will be OEM length travel Remote Reservoir Tractive shock, with same high/low speed compression adjustment and seperate rebound adjustment as the Rally shock, and we decided to retain the twin-piston PDS, based on feedback, especially from the passenger, as it makes for a much plusher end to the shock stroke when covering sharp-edged potholes or depressions, as it takes pressure away from the rubber bump-stop. We will offer the Extreme shock with Tractive's own well-proven Hydraulic Preload Adjuster (HPA),same 10mm travel as OEM, with max spring rate of 85Nm, which will work well with solo rider and luggage, or solo rider with light passenger.
    From our findings, and testing with customers, if you need passenger AND luggage for long periods of time, then higher spring rates are needed, so we can offer the Extreme shock without the HPA but with increased spring rates up to 95Nm by fitting a 30mm longer spring, using the space that was occupied by the HPA. Although the convenience of the HPA is lost, our riders found they were prepared to accept that because they tended to set the sag, using conventional locking ring, then leave it set at that position because they travelled most of the time with passenger and luggage, and didn't want to compromise their ride comfort and performance.
    For OEM fork travel we will offer a simple fork kit of new softer, progressively-wound fork springs with new billet fork caps and needles, with 12mm of preload adjustment built in, something lacking on the OEM forks. Compression and Rebound damping will be adjustable in seperate legs, as per OEM.

    And finally, our Overland shock will be a much simpler, and less expensive seperation-piston type Tractive shock, with HPA and the choice of up to 95Nm linear springs, with OEM travel. These types of shocks have proven very popular over the year's with our KTM 690 Enduro customers for giving maximum simplicity and durability to riders who wish to carry large loads (passenger and/or luggage) over extended periods, but mainly sticking to roadwork, or gentle tracks (which, honestly, for most passenger-carrying owners is more often the case).

    We, of course, will be producing laser-cut steel lowering links for those that find the T7 a tad tall, and these are very simple to manufacture, and for customers to fit in the workshop.

    Because of our close partnership with Tractive Suspension, and the fact we custom-build every shock to each customers spring rate, depending on their requirements when placing their order, it is possible for us to offer what we think will be the widest range of improved suspension for owners for shipping worldwide.

    Please follow our thread, and we will be discussing the YAMAHA T7 suspension in further detail as we progress with developments.
    #14
  15. al803

    al803 Tenere700

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    The overland version will offer hydraulic preload adjustment and higher rate rear spring but no other adjustments if I got it right.
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  16. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Unicorn breeder

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    Similar to the other TracTive/RR shocks for the CB500X and G310GS for example - the non-reservoir shocks have a combined damping adjuster (rather than the separate hi/low compression adjusters on the reservoir versions, and a separate rebound adjuster). This means the rebound damping and compression is adjusted in a fix ratio to each other, rather than individually - but you can still adjust the damping rate on the Overland shock too.

    Jx
    #16
  17. al803

    al803 Tenere700

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    So the overland rear shock will have HPA, rebound adjuster (1x screw) and a different compression adjuster (1x screw) but it will be only 1 screw for compression while the other versions will have 2 screws for compression and 1x screw for rebound...did I get it right? I think the overland is an improved but similiar kind of version over the stock shock right? If I am not wrong the stock shock has HPA, 1 screw for rebound and another one screw for compression...
    #17
  18. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Unicorn breeder

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    I'm sure Mitch will be along to confirm soon, but if it is like the emulsion shocks on the CB & GS, then the damping adjuster is a single combined adjuster, that adjusts both the rebound and compression together in a fixed ratio (as I mentioned above) - the bias is towards rebound as that is the primary damping action you require of course - to stop the spring pogoing indefinitely - but basically when you add or subtract rebound, you'll also add and subtract compression damping in a proportional amount.

    For the majority of riding conditions, this is what you want/would do anyway - if you need more finite/separate damping control, that is what the more advanced/expensive shock options are for.

    In my experience (with a similar 'LEVEL 1' shock on the G310GS last year), the quality of the damping via the combined adjuster is very well balanced on the TracTive shock, and it's a more affordable way to upgrade your overall ride quality.

    note. It's worth noting that (as Mitch explains above), that it will be possible to specify the fully adjustable [that is three individual circuit damping] shock with the stiffer spring rate/s too if that is what a particular rider needs, but you do have to forfeit the hydraulic preload adjuster in that instance as there is not room for both.

    Hope that clarifies things...

    Jx

    edit. I was just speaking with KTMmitch, and he confirmed that the above specification for the Overland shock is indeed correct.
    #18
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  19. al803

    al803 Tenere700

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    Ok then thank you. I am in favor of the HPA when the bike is used on an everyday basis. From what I read I would pick one between the Extreme and the Overland version that retains HPA and the seat height remains the same as the stock set up I guess.
    #19
  20. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Unicorn breeder

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    A remote (hydraulic) preload adjuster certainly makes sense if you regularly ride with [significantly] differing loads - where you'd want the ability to quickly set/adjust your sag according to whether you are riding solo/with luggage/two-up with luggage... but if you're just riding solo most of the time, then once you've set your initial sag you really don't have to touch the preload again (rather it is damping you may wan to adjust depending on various terrains/speeds) - and even then, the whole point of having high quality suspension that has been designed specifically for an 'adventure' style bike is that it is able to handle a wide variety of terrain and conditions, often in a single journey - without the constant need to tweak things.

    Essentially [all] the adjustment is there so that you can dial in the feel/action of the suspension to your personal preference, and perhaps have an alternative set of settings for when you've significantly altered your riding conditions (ie. high-speed road riding vs slow speed off-road riding, and solo fun riding vs fully laden touring for example).

    Jx
    #20