1. eNewsletter Sign Up

Rattling sound from '87 Honda Elite 150, with video!

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by fishmanasc, Mar 20, 2020.

  1. fishmanasc

    fishmanasc Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Oddometer:
    54
    Location:
    SoCal
    Hi! As the title says, I picked up an 87 Elite 150 that has a rattling sound from the engine area. Before I start tearing into it, does this sound familiar to anyone? The scoot has almost 13,000 miles and has lived a very rough and neglected life. Thanks in advance!

    #1
  2. sanjoh

    sanjoh Purveyor of Light

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,191
    Location:
    ADVmonster, CFL, WNC
    How does it sound when you put it under a load?

    If it quiets down, likely cvt related.
    #2
  3. JerryH

    JerryH To Each Their Own Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Oddometer:
    8,869
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ
    It's a cyclic sound, comes and goes at regular intervals. Could be a harmonic vibration. Is there anything loose that could be rattling? It is not a rod knock or piston slap. It could be a cam chain.
    #3
    Salth2ofish likes this.
  4. jerryd

    jerryd Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Oddometer:
    105
    Location:
    tampa
    sounds like rod knock
    #4
  5. fishmanasc

    fishmanasc Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Oddometer:
    54
    Location:
    SoCal
    Thank you all! Under lead the engine sounds the same, the rate of the sound seems to increase with engine speed. It sounds like the noise is coming down from the engine and transmission. There are lots of loose body panels on the bike, but nothing I could find that would make this sort of a sound. As far as cam chain, or rod knock, if that is it then I'm probably SOL. I have neither the time or talent to fix either of those. Just in case you all wanted to see more videos, I took two more. The first is the bike on the center stand, rev up, and rev up with my foot on the break. The second is a very shaky ride around the parking lot, and I apologize in advance for the Chacos. If either confirms a diagnosis, or you need more info let me know.

    I really appreciate your help and knowledge.



    #5
  6. baloneyskin daddy

    baloneyskin daddy bikaholic Super Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Oddometer:
    3,830
    Location:
    southcentral PA.
    If you have any mechanical ability at all and a couple tools theres an easy method to find the problem. 1st off,if its a bottom end engine noise just drain the oil and look for metal particles in the oil. With that amount of noise there will be particles. Also pull the cover over the drive belt and pull off the fr variator. Then start it . If its gone the noise is in the drive system, if not its engine noise. The exhaust on these are known to break internally and rattle like hell also. The engines are fairly smooth runners so with the drive system disconnected ,if you feel thumping along with the noise ,I'd have to go with either a rod bearing out or cam chain tensioner or guide broken which will turn up in the oil.
    #6
    CROSSBOLT likes this.
  7. jerryd

    jerryd Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Oddometer:
    105
    Location:
    tampa
    improved videos. not rod knock. sounds like inside of muffler.
    #7
    CROSSBOLT likes this.
  8. ernest t bass

    ernest t bass Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2007
    Oddometer:
    503
    Location:
    Cardiff by The Sea, California
    I once bought an Elite that had a bent shaft on the center stand.
    This caused a rattle that sounded awful but was really nothing once straightened.

    Check on under side of engine near center stand shaft, look for contact.

    The Center stand on you bike looks janky anyway....try removing it

    The Center stand on the Elite 150 is what hits the ground first in Hard Cornering.

    #8
  9. fishmanasc

    fishmanasc Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Oddometer:
    54
    Location:
    SoCal
    Sounds good, thank you all. Baloneyskin, I changed the oil in it when I got it home, and there were small visible metal flecks in the oil. Also, the oil was super thin, like water and totally black. Like I said, this poor bike has had a hard life up in the bay area. Jerryd, I hope your right! Ernest, the bike was probably knocked over more times than can be counted. Literally every piece of plastic on it is broken in at least one place.

    I will take your advice, and do some troubleshooting this week. Thanks for the guidance, I will post an update here when I get a chance.
    #9
  10. Wentwest

    Wentwest How's that work?

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Oddometer:
    3,141
    Location:
    Northern California
    Try taking off the cover over the belt drive. It could be as simple as a belt about to break. One look and that should be obvious. Try taking off the clutch and the belt, start it again and see what's changed. Also, you can check to see the tightness of the nut holding the variator on, and the similar nut on the clutch. These are supposed to be very tight. It there's any wiggle at all you can try tightening them up and see if things change. Could be the big nut holding the rear wheel on, behind the muffler, is loose so the wheel is rattling, too. It seems to happen too slowly to be an engine thing. Maybe it is, but start on the outside and work your way in. I have seen everything on these engines, including seizures, but that only happens when they get run without oil.
    #10
  11. JerryH

    JerryH To Each Their Own Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Oddometer:
    8,869
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ
    The oil should not have been super thin or black. Definitely sounds like it was contaminated and diluted. Did it have a gas smell? Oil like that could have caused internal damage. Replace the oil with 20w50 and see if that changes the noise. The noise is a rattle, not a knock. But loose cam chains tend to rattle. Does it have a manually adjustable cam chain tensioner on it?
    #11
  12. fishmanasc

    fishmanasc Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Oddometer:
    54
    Location:
    SoCal
    I will take the cover off and take a look. That is definitely within my mechanical skill level.

    I didn't smell it when I changed the oil. I don't know if it has a manually adjustable cam chain tensioner, but I will take a look. Thanks!
    #12
  13. fullmetalscooter

    fullmetalscooter Let me take this duck off

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Oddometer:
    4,763
    Location:
    BC
    As to the broken plastic Standard ABS Pipe glue well glue it back together . You may have to use small peaces of plastic you have laying around to reinforce the back of really bad brakes. To me it sounds like ether the tranny belt , rollers , clutch need work or the Muffler could be rusted out . I go with the first guess. Parts to fix the belt , rollers should not cost more then 50 bucks off fleabay etc .
    #13
  14. Steve_h

    Steve_h Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2016
    Oddometer:
    863
    Location:
    Spartanburg, SC
    To me, it's too slow to be a rod or valves. Cam chain normally won't be as regular a sound. They generally randomly slap and usually more in time with the engine. Too regular and not in time with the engine to be muffler vibrations unless it's a harmonic. I'm thinking maybe belt or clutch since the sound is there without the rear wheel turning. As was suggested before, pulling the variator and belt will surely tell you if it's driveline or engine related. Hope you get it sorted. They are nice scoots.
    #14
  15. fishmanasc

    fishmanasc Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Oddometer:
    54
    Location:
    SoCal
    So, after an extended battle with the drive pulley face, I was able to confirm that the sound is not coming from the transmission. See video for proof:



    So, my plan of attack is to put the drive system back together and remove the exhaust to see if the rattle is from inside the exhaust or a loose bracket somewhere. Thoughts?
    #15
  16. sro99

    sro99 one odd owl

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    Oddometer:
    1,306
    Location:
    GTA ON
    I would pull the Cam chain tensioner and see if it is fully extended or if the spring is broken. It sounds like cam chain, maybe?
    #16
  17. fishmanasc

    fishmanasc Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Oddometer:
    54
    Location:
    SoCal
    Sounds good. I will take a look at the service manual to find out about that. Thanks.
    #17
    Salth2ofish likes this.
  18. fishmanasc

    fishmanasc Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Oddometer:
    54
    Location:
    SoCal
    Whelp, I was putting the drive face pulley back on I stripped the splines. Now I'm waiting for a replacement from eBay. So that happened. I will order a new cam chain tensioner spring, and post here when done. I appreciate the help everyone!

    20200325_171006.jpg
    #18
  19. Wentwest

    Wentwest How's that work?

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Oddometer:
    3,141
    Location:
    Northern California
    When you look at the cam chain tensioner on the side of the cylinder toward the back tire you'll see a bolt head. When you unscrew the bolt you will see a spring under it. That spring pushes on the tensioner plate inside in cylinder block, which you can't see without taking the whole top end apart. The way it's put together is very simple. The whole tensioner plate is bolted to the cylinder with two bolts. If you undo them the cover will come loose unless it's stuck to its gasket. If you pull it off and tear the gasket you can make another out of medium weight gasket paper using the old one as a pattern. There's oil in there, but no real pressure so it's not high tech brain surgery. When you take it off you'll find a rod with a sort of foot at the inside end, and it slides in and out of the cover, but you have to press down a lever thing on the cover to push the rod so the end where the spring was moves out, away from the cylinder and toward the bolt you unscrewed at the beginning of this adventure. The rod slides toward the cylinder freely, but you have to release that lever thing to push it away. Assembly is at page 6-14 of the manual.

    CH150 Cam Chain Tensioner_000009-page-001.jpg
    #19
  20. fishmanasc

    fishmanasc Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Oddometer:
    54
    Location:
    SoCal
    Great. I ordered a new spring for the tensioner. When it comes I'll go ahead and replace it.
    #20