Rekluse Auto Clutch for F800GS

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by toro618, Apr 18, 2012.

  1. Zé

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    Regardless if you can feel it or not, the free play gain still needs to exist as it is the indicator that the final tune is correct. Although I did had FPG on my Magura, don't forget you need to apply some pressure on the lever to see the FPG, with no pressure, it will be hard to do so.

    I have spoke to Jon and I have tried the Rekluse in ALL the possible adjustments, from 0 to 100%, and in none of them the clutch works properly, specially downshifting in high revs. The problem being that the engine lever point for which the clutch fully disengages, is not achievable using the Magura.

    This being, I would strongly suggest you to disengage your ProShifter and take the bike for a ride. Try to downshift with the engine in High Revs and see if in fact your tuning is proper, or if the ProShifter is compensating any errors in adjustments.

    I really need to take some pictures to update my own build thread, and I'll take some pictures to explain the difference between the full travel of Magura vs the full travel of the OEM cable.

    Another reason I have to support this, is that I was feeling my OEM clutch pack slipping at high speed or force situations. I assumed it was pure wear. However, once I took it out, the pack was in great shape, except the metal rings, that where clearly blue, indicator of high temperature slipping. Since I can see that the clutch arm lever does not travel the same with the Magura, and that my clutch metal rings are complaining about excess heat/slip, it is not wrong to assume that the culprit is the Magura, for the exact same reason why it does not work properly with the Rekluse. It does not provide the complete travel/adjustment needed.

    Thanks, its always great to hear nice words about our work ;) Best of luck with your overhaul :)
  2. LNICK

    LNICK Adventurer

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    I already tested with normal clutch use without Proshift and it is working fine. No problem to downshift at high revs or slipping after 2300rpm. I can guarantee that I don't have any problem. I use it all day to commute in the very hot weather of Rio de Janeiro. Guy it is making me crazy impossible to ride between 11am to 6pm.
    I already opened it to see if had any signal of heat or problem. Nothing...
    I can't remember anything different between R and GS that could make any difference.
    Weird.
    If you'd like I can make a video of it working.
    Regards
  3. Zé

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    Any chance that our Magura slaves are not the same? Or that mine needs any maintenance although no leaks or aparent work flaws are found?

    If memorie doesn't fail, I read something right here on ADV about the Maguras not having enought length on the slave to properly operate the clutch, but I can't find it.

    Anyone with ideas?

    There is nothing I would like more then to be wrong on this. The oem cable is stiff as hell with the Rekluse, and although I'm already thinking of some ideas to make it worthy on daily 300kms off road, I would still prefere the Magura...

    Plus I have indeed tried your process with no success specially if I try and follow Jon's process to make sure I never loose the point. This was to create a stop pad like the one Snowy made. There will be skiing in hell before my Magura/Rekluse works properly with the point achieved using the OEM cable.

    But I'm one to accept change, so make it snow xD
  4. LNICK

    LNICK Adventurer

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    Hum Maybe...
    I had to disassemble the magura to pass it trough the frame that is of course different from GS. I reassembled and refueled after it.
    The adjustment is almost at the maximum of I could get from magura thread.
    Maybe that without know I got the best from Magura.
    That is the only answer to the question. BTW was pretty annoying bled it.
    Regards
  5. LNICK

    LNICK Adventurer

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    ZeTrailOut. Could you give more details regarding which gear is the worst to shift down and which is the rmp that you try it?
    I will try simulate it here. I am a curiosity guy.
    Regards
  6. Zé

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    For me the worst is 4th to 3rd around 4.000rpms.

    But let me explain my point of view. Today I took them both apart to explain better.

    This is the bracket I created to mark the clutch point. Don't mind the bad look, the engine cover will be removed to be painted eventually ;)

    [​IMG]

    This is when the OEM cable disengages the clutch. Let it be noted that this is before the lever touches my fingers. The red mark is slightly off because of the size of the pen

    [​IMG]

    NOW this is the Magura at the same distance regarding the lever/finger

    [​IMG]

    And this is the Magura with the lever against the handlebars

    [​IMG]

    No way this can be working the clutch properly. If I fine tune it to hit the red mark, it will not be correct with the bracket, which means, it will not be correct with Rekluses correct measurements.

    Unless my slave is different then others, or that I'm making a rookie mistake on this, I simply can't see how the Magura will mimic the OEM cable travel…
  7. LNICK

    LNICK Adventurer

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    Thanks ZeTrailOut. I will compare with my setup and I will post the results here.
    I am curious.
    Regards.
  8. LNICK

    LNICK Adventurer

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    ZeTrailOut. Now I understood why you are having problem to shiftdown. The start point of my setup is much more ahead of your so Magura had to push to much to disengage fully the clutch.
    http://1drv.ms/1Tb95mE
    http://1drv.ms/1O1PEF9
    Did you try to use the same procedure than me? When I tried to use Rekluse procedure I got the same situation and never got the clutch disengaged but I had to make the rev up to start the drag the bike so I began to use the procedure that I describe before. My start point give me a pretty small drag but it can not move the bike even without rider on and using the first gear. In fact I´m able to move the bike back with my legs without notice any additional effort.
    I tested and I can shiftdown in any gear without any problem and the clutch is not slipping since the brake effect of engine is locking the rear wheel in a hard shiftdown. Something that I did just to test but it is not safe considering the reality of Brazilian streets and Tarmac,
    Regards.
  9. Zé

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    I hadn't realized before, and to be honest, never noticed it in the past, but our engine cases are not the same… it can be enough for the Magura to work on your and not on the GS.
  10. LNICK

    LNICK Adventurer

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    Make me sad...
    Appear that I need less travel from end to end to work.
    It is a shame but appear that I can't help anymore.
    I could swear also that the engine are 100% the same.
  11. LNICK

    LNICK Adventurer

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    Hi ZeTrailOut. Yesterday I installed a RPM Activated Switch from NOS to disable the solenoid of blipper below 2100rpm that worked fantastic.
    I believe that only a dual clutch would be better.
    But during the tests to identify the exactly point that I have to disable the blipper I went to a freeway put it on the 6th gear and put a little pressure at gear level to downshift. When it arrived at 2100 RPM it allowed me to downshift without touch the clutch and very smooth. After 2300 RPM it is completely engaged.
    It is working very fine for me and I saw the part list for both bikes and the PN are the same so I can not see why it is not working.
    I hope that it works for even without the Magura but if some friends here desire to install it in a F800GS I will do it just to kill my curiosity around this case.
  12. pklop

    pklop Motorcycle addict

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    I thought that my english reading skills where decent, but for the life of me i cannot figure out what you are saying here :dunno especially the "solenoid of blipper" part.

    I did enjoy your previous discussion with ZeTrailOut though :thumb
  13. Dukehunt

    Dukehunt Lost in Translation Nev 2.0 Super Moderator

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    pklop, you just need to have a few more beers before you read it and it is as plain as day :beer
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  14. LNICK

    LNICK Adventurer

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    It's not English.
    Solenoid is an electromechanical device that push my throttle cable "blipping" my engine.
    https://www.google.com.br/search?q=solenoid&biw=1280&bih=800&prmd=isvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiYruHAyvrKAhUJG5AKHfh2Au0Q_AUIBigB#imgrc=jDOmuMoX6zsKpM:
    Blipper is motorcycle technique to put the revs up so you can down shift without touch your clutch.
    NOS is the manufacturer nosnitrous.com that has a switch that open or close depending on the revs of the engine https://www.holley.com/products/nitrous/controllers_and_accessories/controllers/parts/15982NOS
    All of it is related with my proshift system. http://www.proshift.com/proshift_bump_blip_bike_system
    Sorry about the English.
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  15. pklop

    pklop Motorcycle addict

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    Now it makes more sense :thumb thanx :photog (the beer helped also)
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  16. Zé

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    I'm loving the Rekluse, makes drive like I'm running away from the cops all the time :jack

    This weekend I'm taking her out to try the rekluse on the trails and also to test drive the new suspension, so in the end I'll know how good or bad the OEM cable is with it, but I just can't make it work with the Magura. On all my measurements I always need more travel.. I don't know what to think, but I'm with you, something is indeed weird
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  17. pklop

    pklop Motorcycle addict

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    Looking forward to your review!:lurk
  18. Zé

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    Today I finally took my baby girl for a ride! I needed to test other stuff too, and the review on that I already wrote on my build thread, but the Rekluse part that is the important one for this thread, let me copy it and share it with you guys

    "The rekluse.. well… much can be said. It does feel a little bit like cheating to be honest. It does power the bike beautifully over nearly every terrain or situation without breaking a sweat!! But on the other hand, transforming this big bikes in more oriented enduro machines is a door that once opened, cheating with the clutch becomes allowed :D

    For super technical stuff that does require the clutch lever use, like super sharp turns or pivots, boulders or big rock terrains or wheelies just to name a few, things become harder. With the rekluse alone I can't attack super technical stuff at 5km/h and still remain the control I get with the clutch lever. In those situations using the lever is a must, however its a super heavy lever now, and that step back on days that are more technical oriented.. I need to find a way to make the clutch lever lighter.

    I believe some people might see rekluse clutches as a way to make driving this big bikes easier. As an off road instructor of big bikes, I believe this is something that should be said with caution. I strongly disapprove the use of this product for riders that don't yet know how to properly ride. I say this for two simple reasons:

    1 - You will never properly learn how to use your clutch/throttle. In my book, if you don't know how to use your clutch/throttle on an off road bike, you don't know how to ride off road. So going straight for products like this will limit your learning curve and create deficient techniques that will be super hard to get rid of if you ever learn the proper techniques.

    2 - It is very easy to go faster then normal. The attention you where spending in clutching is now free for other necessities. Terrain reading for instance. When you read the terrain with "more time" its easier to go faster. However, to go faster one needs to properly control other techniques like heavy braking and body positioning. This are heavy bikes propelling themselves at around 100km/h off road with no problem at all and a beautiful grace, you can get to 180 in bigger straights. At this speeds and with our bikes weights, not knowing what you are doing can be close to deadly. Not a bad way to go but still… With this in mind, something like a rekluse that makes the driving easier and in a way faster, might be dangerous for those that might fall into the temptations of easy over hard work to learn the proper techniques first.

    Downhills are tricky now. The use of the engine to slow down on big bikes like this is a big plus. On 100kg bikes with rekluse, I get using just the brakes to slow down downhill. However on 200kg plus bikes, I'm afraid the stress on the brakes might be too big on some downhills, or on some long days going down all the time. On normal use, only on the long run will I be able to assert the brakes wear and tear.

    Personally I love it!!! And like I said, the rekluse does free a loooottt of your brain for other activities once you don't need the clutch all the time. In my way of driving, The rekluse will shine as combo, Rekluse + Left Hand Rear Brake system!!

    The LHRB is my next step of the project! I was super happy that the mechanical stuff was done and I could focus on finishing the plastics and overall design, however I need to make this happen first :-)"
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  19. pklop

    pklop Motorcycle addict

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    I didn't expect this and am still wondering why this is. I do understand that when you must lift the front the rekluse is of no use, you need the clutch lever for that. But beyond that, why is the rekluse making your very slow driving harder? Since it automaticly slips the clutch for you, i assume you use the rear brake for control. Or is that the problem; no fine control with the rear brake only? Indeed a left hand rear brake would shine there. For me the possibility for having a LHRB would be the main reason for getting the rekluse.

    At what rpm does the rekluse fully disengage your clutch?
  20. Zé

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    I'm using the medium spring set, but I'll give it a crack at the faster one. Still it is like ABS or traction control. Yes they do it for me, but at their own pace, not mine. Even when you can adjust it like you can with the rekluse. Doing a pivot turn not using the clutch.. I have a hard time seeing it happen with any degree of safety for instance. I will not have a hard time saying that for the large majority of Rekluse users on the 800, the use of clutch will be limited to shifting up and down, but for more intensive use, you will need to use the clutch for certain techniques.

    On the other hand you are also correct. The feeling you have on a normal clutch is nothing compared with the one you have with the brake pedal. But even like that, what I said before still applies. Using the rear brake for control forces the bike to slow down, that not always is what you need. Imagine you just need to slip the wheel to slide the bike, a kick on the clutch with some throttle and you are on your way. To do this just out of throttle alone it requires that you do this at a higher speed or have a higher exist speed. So without using the clutch, either you had to brake and slow that bike down, or have a too high speed. If I wanna be in the middle I need the clutch.

    This is just one of the many situations one will continue to need the clutch. Obviously it depends on your kind of riding. I still believe that for "normal users" this will not be an issue, but for more advanced techniques, the clutch is needed. So that on the smalls KTM's you have the Magura's with the Rekluse working together, so when the clutch is needed, the lever is a good low weight.