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Removing '15+ Tiger 95hp EU regulatory limit

Discussion in 'Triumph Tigers' started by pjensen641, Mar 2, 2021.

  1. pjensen641

    pjensen641 Long timer Supporter

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    This has been covered a little bit in a few other threads, but I thought it might be worth starting a new one.

    A common complaint I have seen is that Triumph took away all the top end from the Tiger 800-900 series (including 850 Sport). People even list this as reasons for going with a different bike, particularly if they were testing the XRx and were wanting more of an upright sport-touring bike.

    Have you noticed that all the most recent generations of Tiger 800 and 900 magically have only 95hp? (Verses something like an Yamaha Tracer9 GT with 115). It seems that this is to pass certain Euro licensing levels (maybe even just UK?). When I first saw this Dyno graph of the new Tiger 900's, it was even more clear that Triumph were restricting the top end somehow. What other explanation is there for such a plateaued HP curve and a linearly decreasing torque curve? Heads and cams maybe, but it still seemed a little weird.

    Edit: Here is the supposed reason why they are limited to 95hp...
    "The whole reason your STriple is restricted is because of that new silly EU A2 license people get before getting the A1. In order to limit a bike to 35kw/47cv (34ps) the bike has to first be over 175kg and be no more than 70kw/95cv (98ps) from 'factory'."

    This is a post from another forum here....

    https://www.triumphrat.net/threads/95hp-st3-question.186673/#post-2019232

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Original Article Here...

    Notice how the torque curve falls off on the 800 starting around 8500 rpm, and the 900 earlier still at 7250rpm? How is it possible to have such a linearly decreasing torque curve that ends up overlaying the Tiger 800s curve in the upper RPM band?


    Electronic Throttle Restriction

    Then I happened to find a post by CDbiker220 in the Tiger 900 thread here, and he mentioned using TuneECU to remove the Throttle-by-wire restriction. I checked my '16 800 XRt and guess what, it is also restricted. That led me down the rabbit hole...

    There is my Tiger 800's "Sport" map for ETV (Electronic Throttle Valve). Check it out, it is set to start backing the throttle butterfly off at 8500rpm even at full throttle position! At redline, it is closed off by 12%

    [​IMG]


    Interesting, so what about the 2020 Tiger 900 ETV map. It is even more restricted, and only opens up to 83%
    [​IMG]


    Can we just edit the table to De-restrict the bike?

    OK, the above tables are interesting, but surely you can't just edit the table to get your full top end back right? Surely there must be fueling and ignition changes. One wouldn't want to blindly just open up the throttle angle and risk something? Not so fast, Triumph does exactly the opposite to restrict the 800 to 35kW for UK learners permits, and they also did the same thing to the 850 sport to restrict is power. What I mean is that I used Tune ECU to verify that no other maps (Ignition, Low opening Fuel, Main Fuel, Target AFR) had changed when these restricted maps were created. To me, this is good evidence to say that you can, in fact, just edit the ETV table as you see fit.

    Here is the 35kW Tiger 800 ETV map (Compare to my 800 XRt map above). It only allows 33% throttle angle at high rpm!
    [​IMG]

    And here is the new Tiger 850 Sport ETV map (Compare to the Tiger 900 map above). 65% opening instead of 83%...
    [​IMG]


    To be continued...
    #1
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  2. pjensen641

    pjensen641 Long timer Supporter

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    Disclaimer!!
    I did this at my own risk, and I make no guarantees that you won't harm your engine if you decide to do the same. I spot checked the maps I was interested in to come to the conclusion that it was safe to do so. This is all at your own risk!



    Lets Give it a Shot...

    I decided to go ahead an edit my bikes "Sport" map only. I left Road and Rain alone so that I can always run a stock map if I want. Here is the map I came up with. Again, you have to compare it to the first map I posted above (my original "Sport" map). You can see that I raised most of the maximum throttle values to 100%. I did end up leaving the redlines value a little lower.

    [​IMG]




    Tune ECU allows you to look at the maps in a little easier format. You can only view one RPM range at a time though. Here are a few comparisons between stock "Sport" map (dashed line), and De-restricted "Sport" map (solid line).

    Here is the 5000rpm map. Again, De-restricted is solid, original is dashed. I just decided to to a little smoothing of the "knees" in the curve.
    [​IMG]



    Here is the 8500 rpm map. This is where the restriction starts, and as you can see, the De-restricted map goes higher. I actually lowered some of the areas where the map was over-driving the throttle. It just seemed like it was designed to get to higher power sooner, and reduce the ability to modulate through that range.
    [​IMG]


    Here is 9250 rpm, where the restriction was fully implemented. Notice how much higher the throttle command stays..
    [​IMG]



    Test Ride/Initial Conclusions...

    I was able to load the new tune and give it a shot this afternoon. I probably rode for about an hour. I had my phone mounted in a RAM mount so that I could monitor throttle position near redline. What I can say for certainty is that it worked! I was able to do a 3rd gear pull to redline and compare my stock "Road" map that is still restricted to my new De-restricted "Sport" map as shown above. I could see that the stock "Road" map started backing the throttle off about 1500 rpm before redline, while the new map held until the rev limiter.

    So is there any more top end? I believe there is, but of course its hard to access within the last 1500 rpm. What it felt like was that the stock "Road" map softened power up a bit and ran in to the rev limiter "softer". The new De-restricted "Sport" map continued with the same urgency all the way to bumping the rev limiter.

    In all honesty, the mid-throttle changes were more noticeable. You can see from above that I smoothed out and made the throttle more linear throughout the rev band. I also made it easier to modulate the upper 1/3rd of the throttle band, and I could tell that that part of the throttle actually did something and was more linearly modulating the power.

    This isn't going to turn your Tiger in to a Super Duke R....but I feel better that I am getting everything the engine can give now. Any top end in a Tiger is welcome and helps bring a little of the Street Triple character back in to the bike.


    Making the Tiger 850 Sport an Interesting Option?

    Because the Tiger 850 sport is significantly more restricted than my 800, I believe that this method for De-restricting could be extremely noticeable. You can't simply load the Tiger 900 map to the 850, but you can edit the tables as I have to match the 900 perhaps. Unfortunately, you are best to wait until the warranty is up, because this WILL void your warranty. For anyone who is budget minded but annoyed at the artificial power restriction Triumph have done...this could be an interesting option.
    #2
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  3. hawkbox

    hawkbox 800 (Ironhide!) Supporter

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    Neat. I'm not sure the top end would ever interest me but smoothing out the delivery overall is a very cool implementation.

    Nice work!
    #3
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  4. pjensen641

    pjensen641 Long timer Supporter

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    Right, this method can also be used to shape the throttle curves exactly to suit your needs. If any of the throttle modes annoy you in their delivery, this is a way to get exactly what you want.

    You could also do the opposite of what I did, and lower the maximum power to suit some need. Maybe for offroad, if you think the throttle is too twitchy, you could attenuate the throttle command with this method.
    #4
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  5. pjensen641

    pjensen641 Long timer Supporter

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    Edited the OP with the information I just found regarding reason for original 95hp restrictions. Link in first post.

    "The whole reason your STriple is restricted is because of that new silly EU A2 license people get before getting the A1. In order to limit a bike to 35kw/47cv (34ps) the bike has to first be over 175kg and be no more than 70kw/95cv (98ps) from 'factory'.

    I read this to mean that Triumph HAS to limit the maximum power from the factory just for the possibility of offering a 35kW limit. So its sort of a pre-conditions to Euro regulatory requirements. Stupid....
    #5
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  6. pjensen641

    pjensen641 Long timer Supporter

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    Thread title updated to reflect the reason for the Electronic Throttle Limitation. I figured it was more clear to describe why the limitation is there, and what I was looking to accomplish here.
    #6
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  7. Cam2ride

    Cam2ride God is great, beer is good & people are crazy... Supporter

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    Interesting info! I just bought a '21 850 Sport and am still in the break in mileage so haven't gotten into higher RPM's yet to get the feel of how it is factory restricted.

    Will keep an eye on this thread for the day after my warranty expires.
    #7
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  8. pjensen641

    pjensen641 Long timer Supporter

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    Cool. I don't know anyone who has done it to an 850 Sport yet, so it will be interesting what you find. Of course, I suppose it will be a couple years for you.
    #8
  9. Cam2ride

    Cam2ride God is great, beer is good & people are crazy... Supporter

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    Well... couple of years or at least until I get through the break in period... :photog
    #9
  10. CDBiker220

    CDBiker220 Adventurer

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    pjensen641, Thanks for making this thread and completing testing. I had posted the info about this in the general 900 thread but wanted to be clear I can't take credit for it and have not completed this on my own bike yet. This guy (DBlackrider) has a youtube channel that goes over what changes he made over multiple videos. The description in the 2nd link below also has a link to download his custom maps for the GT and Rally Pro in case you are interested in comparing to what he did. I'm not sure if he went further than the butterfly opening such as changing fuel and timing tables.

    He states that he dyno tested the bike and it now has 109hp and there is a video coming soon. I'm sure it's not 109hp at the wheel, he must be just adding a percentage to wheel horsepower or adding the measured change to the published 95hp. Either way that's a significant increase and brings the bike more in line with a Yamaha Tracer or similar bike on the top end.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/DBlackrider/videos

    #10