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Resurecting my, no longer abanoned, retired and rusty old relic.

Discussion in 'Shiny Things' started by bwalsh, Jun 28, 2019.

  1. bwalsh

    bwalsh Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Oddometer:
    27,736
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    Helltown
    I'm a bit distracted with the new van, trying to tie up some loose ends. The back of the engine the trans had a good coat of oil on it so I cleaned it up some the other day to find the leak. I've put new plugs and an air filter in the engine. I have new wires, rotor cap and button but didn't want to put new parts on yet until I was done with the engine(see below).
    Didn't get a before pic but I did get an after...

    [​IMG]

    It still needs another going over. I have new rubber grommets for the PCV valve and the other cap(missing in the photo) and new parts that go in them. I replaced the oil sending unit. Now I have a working oil gauge, Yay! I was expecting the distributor "O" ring as the culprit but I was wrong...

    [​IMG]

    Notice the light brown crap in the oil? I had sprayed that area real good with the water hose. Seems, a little too good. I checked the oil and it was milk shake color and way over full!
    I drained that oil/water mixture out ASAP. Turns out it was only about 1/2 quart of water. I'm glad I only drove it a couple miles. That also explains the noisy lifter in the back of the engine upon startup. I'll put a few miles on this oil/filter and change again.

    From what I've read, these engines have a tendency for the rear intake gasket to slip and leak. I can see why. I can damn near get my pinky finger under the intake in the back. Edelbrocks installation instructions says to use a 1/4" bead of black silicone instead of the rubber gasket with their intakes. I may go that route. I'm going to do a little more research first.
    There's some confusion on which intake is on which engine. One intake has larger intake ports then the other. From the info I've gathered, the 360 heads have larger ports and the 318 heads have smaller ports, but until I remove this one all bets are off. Allegedly either will work, but I'd rather have matching port dimensions.
    There's a four barrel intake sitting in the back of an 83 Dodge van I've been taking parts off of in the junk yard but I don't want to spend $500-$600 on a new Holley 600cfm right now. If it's a match I may grab it next time I go there for future use.


    In the next few days I'm going to R/R(and clean) the intake and install new Valve guide seals(and clean the valve covers), as it smokes a bit on start up. I have a gas tank grommet and rubber filler tube ordered because the grommet looks rather sketchy.

    [​IMG]

    I also replaced the Exhaust from the "Y" pipe back a couple weeks back...

    [​IMG]


    I'm still having a slight hesitation when taking off. I could possibly be the fault of the old parts I'm replacing. I'll order a Carb rebuild kit from Mikes Carburetors if it still hesitates after I'm done.



    Then, I'll start putting the 67's engine back together to get it movable.

    Stay tuned!
    Nailhead and SafetyThird like this.
  2. Bt10

    Bt10 Long timer

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    Dec 18, 2012
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    1,537
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    Saranac,MI
    Squarebore carbs starting at $250, summitracing, if needed?
    bwalsh likes this.
  3. bwalsh

    bwalsh Long timer

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    Jan 15, 2009
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    Thanks for the heads up but without knowing how long everything is going to be shut down, I don't want to spend any more money on anything for the time being. Right now I just want this van running smoothly, not leaking oil and not blow up. :lol3
    tony the tiger likes this.
  4. lowriderglen

    lowriderglen Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Oddometer:
    207
    Initial hesitation is usually caused by insufficient or ill timed accel pump shot. Also could be associated by distributor that is not advancing. Smoke on startup is usually a sign of worn valve guides. Not to get too deep too fast also understand that the heads are not set up for unleaded fuel. They need to have hard exhaust seats installed. If it is not to be driven very much the heads will be ok. It will start missing when the exhaust seats are cracked. Good luck...
    bwalsh likes this.
  5. chainslap

    chainslap BlessedarethesicK Super Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
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    3,594
    Location:
    The Dirty South
    I'm just catching up on this thread. Super cool story. And one heck of a resurrection. Hope you are able to keep it going.
    bwalsh likes this.
  6. bwalsh

    bwalsh Long timer

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    Jan 15, 2009
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    Yes, I've thought about the accel pump. Just spraying carb cleaner in and around the carb helped get rid of a lot of the hesitation. It just needs a good cleaning inside. I'll know soon exactly what it needs to purr, after I get done throwing these parts at it!
    Dried out guide seals allow oil into the combustion chamber too. The 67 had parts of one in the oil pan and it still doesn't smoke on startup. But they'll get changed out in that van soon also.

    I've been reading lot about this recently as the 67 was driven up to 2000 and the 78 was driven up to 2015...with no ill effects. I was in the same camp you are. I was always told it would mess up the valves/heads. There are two trains of thought. One is like you describe. The other is like this example, one of more than a handful...

    "I started working as a mechanic in the late 60's. When catalytic converters were introduced in the early 70's (which required unleaded fuels), we heard rumors that valve jobs were going to be needed as often as tune ups. That prediction never came true and, actually, the removal of lead from gasoline had a positive effect by not having to deal with the deposits created by the leaded fuels."

    https://www.bellperformance.com/blo...oline-and-classic-cars-a-mechanic-s-viewpoint

    Another viewpoint from Advance Auto...

    "So the question arises: If your engine was made before hardened valve seats became common, does today's unleaded fuel mean you need lead substitute to keep from causing damage to your valve seats? The answer is, frequently, no. Many of the cars built even when leaded fuel was common have sufficiently hard valve seats to endure unleaded fuel use, especially if the car was made after the mid-1960s. You may want to use premium fuel, especially in higher-performance classic engines, to ensure you have sufficient octane and knock resistance, but the valve seats themselves are unlikely to suffer from unleaded fuel use."

    https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/r...ce/what-is-lead-substitute-and-do-you-need-it

    Other Mopar related websites have good discussion about this debate too.

    https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/when-hardened-valve-seats-production.264352/

    and of course there's a lot more info if you look.
    Mopar started using hard(er) seats in 1972(73?) but quite a few older mechanics have said the 1960's seats were just as hard as anything you can get now. Most owners haven't switched over to hardened seats and have no issues.
    So I'm not worried about the 78 at all. I don't foresee having any issues with the 67 either. As for the 78, If there was anything to make me think there is something more internal that needed attention, I wouldn't have bought it.

    Time will tell. My engines will be the guinea pigs!
    Nailhead and RedRocket like this.
  7. bwalsh

    bwalsh Long timer

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    Thanks!

    Yeah, me too.
    chainslap likes this.
  8. bwalsh

    bwalsh Long timer

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    I got the intake off the 78 B200 this afternoon...

    [​IMG]

    I'll break out the pressure washer tomorrow and clean it up.
    It was sealed on there good! I kept looking for other bolts I may have missed. There were no more. It took a pretty large pry bar and truck tire pry bar to get it to start moving.

    It's a heavy little bastard! The inside of the engine doesn't look too bad...

    [​IMG]

    That engine has a good bit of compression. I couldn't get it to budge by hand to get it to TDC so I left it were it was. Unlike the Slant six in the A108 with a gear driven distributor, the 360 has a blade type drive. Like a large flathead screwdriver. Only two ways for the distributor to go in, 0° or 180° out

    I also may have discovered why I have a hesitation on take off. The four carb bolts were not tight at all. Two, I could have twisted off by hand. The other two were not much tighter.
    Goggles Paisano likes this.
  9. thumpism

    thumpism Between bikes

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    Dec 16, 2005
    Oddometer:
    6,754
    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    Man, your engine looks astoundingly easy to get to compared to the one in my '94. I'd expect the head gaskets (yet to be done on my van) to be a less odious job on your engine.
    bwalsh likes this.
  10. bwalsh

    bwalsh Long timer

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    Yep, two bolts and two hasps and you're there. It's about twelve bolts to uncover the entire engine on the A van. You gotta love engineers. The more they refine vehicles, the more difficult they are to work on. Engineers should be required to work on their designs for a year before the automakers start production. I bet vehicles would be a lot easier to work on.
    Nailhead and mike25 like this.
  11. bwalsh

    bwalsh Long timer

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    I got the intake back on the 78 a few days ago...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I replaced the thermostat, all gaskets on and under the intake, Air filter, valve cover gaskets, rubber seals on valve covers, PCV valve, breather, oil sending unit, plugs, wires, Distributor cap and button. I still need to buy a Carb rebuild kit.
    Originally there were alignment dowel pins in the middle of the front and rear of the intake mating surfaces. They were long gone so I fabricated two new ones out of an old allen wrench, the kind that comes with different kits these days. That large opening that was under the back of the intake? It's the same thickness as the new gasket, and it's filled with the new gasket. The old one was mushy, oil soaked and in pieces. I've never seen a gasket that screwed up. The dowel pins will help keep the gasket in place.

    I decided to do the valve seals at a later date, but have the seals and tools to do it. I wanted this back together for the time being.

    I then removed the old gas tank filler tube grommet...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I think it was about due. and replaced it with a new one, along with a new rubber hose between the steel filler tubes...

    [​IMG]

    I need some better hose clamps, but these don't leak. The originals got bent out of shape and these are all that I had on hand.
    Funny, the old grommet wasn't leaking but the new one was giving me grief, dribbling a bit. I got it to stop leaking in the last photo but the tank is only 1/4 full. I'm thinking I may need to tweak it some so I'll be keeping a close eye on it. It also didn't match(exactly) to old one that came out but it's what the website I bought it off of called for.
    It still boggles my mind, that's all that's keeping 25 gallons of fuel from leaking out...and the hole is on the bottom of the tank and not up top.
    Nailhead and phreakingeek like this.
  12. thumpism

    thumpism Between bikes

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    Vanagons are like that except that the pressure-fit fuel inlet is at the top of the tank's side, not at the bottom. Leaks are an issue but not usually at that point, instead they occur at the two vent inlets on the top of the tank. Either the grommets decay or the plastic (!) fittings break. I have to drop mine shortly in order to tackle this problem.
    bwalsh likes this.
  13. bwalsh

    bwalsh Long timer

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    Fixed.
  14. MikeyT

    MikeyT Krusty Olde Pharte

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    I realized my screwup almost immediately and deleted my comment. I was hoping it was before anybody could quote me. Mea culpa.
  15. bwalsh

    bwalsh Long timer

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    What screw up? :D


    I deleted the post I quoted...
    MikeyT likes this.
  16. bwalsh

    bwalsh Long timer

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    OK, I've been making some forward progress on the A108. First up, whoever worked on this for the PO or his dad should be shot. I'm finding things that make me cringe...like this for instance...

    [​IMG]

    What is it you say? Before I tell you let me take it apart...

    [​IMG]

    The far right piece is a convex shaped piece of steel with what looks like a small blob of brass braised to it. The part it slides onto is a welded bolt. The piece the bolt is welded onto is a inside threaded hollow steel tube. The piece it slides onto(no thread contact between the two) is the correct part, cut down for some reason...with two locking nuts that adjusts the length.
    It's supposed to look like this...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    It's the clutch linkage adjustment rod from the Z bar to the clutch release fork!
    The one I ordered is for a B body car. This was the closest match I could find. The only difference I see is the opening that slides over the Z bar stud. There is no place to order parts like these for a A body van so I have to do a lot of research to order the correct parts.
    I very well may make one of these drilling the stud out of the Z bar and using a Heim joint at some point.
    The clutch rod was basically toast. It was worn halfway thru and looks like the ends had been welded at some point...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I could get one off ebay for $60 and $40 shipping...Uh, no. I'm not paying $100 for a 50" piece of round stock bent on both ends, that will wear just like the one I have.
    So I cut the ends off, threaded the new ends and installed Heim joints on each end and painted the bar flat black. Notice the two cut ends on the table...

    [​IMG]

    Next up. I've been cleaning and painting most of the parts I've removed that go back on, oil pan, timing chain cover, valve cover(not finished yet), bolts, Z bar ball stud mounts, clutch rod, etc. The paint I've used so far is old Rustoleum paint(Gloss Black, Flat Black and Metallic) I've had sitting on a shelf for years, except I did buy two cans of Daytona Yellow paint at Advance auto for the engine bits. Some of the slant six(/6) engines back then were painted Red and some were painted Yellow. This one has both on the block, weird, but I think it was Yellow from the factory. I had a red /6 in my first vehicle, a 65 Dodge D100 pickup. I kind of like the Yellow color but can't find that exact same color but the Daytona Yellow is close.

    Oil pan and timing chain cover...

    [​IMG]

    Notice the other project I've been neglecting between the moto lift and the GS... I'll get to that one here shortly. I started a thread in Olds Cool about five years ago...
    New Fumoto valve installed in the oil pan...

    [​IMG]

    The drain bolts threads were stripped(pan threads are good) and I like the ease of using these to change the oil. Valve cover in the process of being wire brushed...

    [​IMG]

    What I just completed doing was getting the rubber grease seals on the Z bar ball studs. The studs are .688" and the opening in the seal is .311".

    [​IMG]

    Heated the seals in hot tap water for a few minutes and had to work at getting them over the balls. Done!

    [​IMG]

    These will help keep the grease in the Z bar to lube the balls and nylon bearings they ride in. The seals were MIA when I got the van and the inboard ball was worn due to the nylon bearing being severely worn.

    [​IMG]

    There was also a nylon bushing on the inboard ball stud that wasn't supposed to be there. WTF? Luckily the inside of the Z bar where the nylon ball stud bearings go is in good shape.

    Z bar in foreground, miscellaneous bolts painted Metallic and the clutch rod to the left...

    [​IMG]

    I sent my harmonic balancer to Damper Dudes in Anderson CA to rebuild as they had no cores in stock. I also sent them another one I'd gotten off the van here in the junkyard I've been picking parts off of. They gave me a $40 core reimbursement for that one. With that, the total cost from them was around $65 shipped!

    [​IMG]

    They also sleeved the part that runs against the timing chain cover seal...

    [​IMG]

    Now to put it all back together!
  17. Butters

    Butters Kwyjibo Supporter

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    That's a pretty damn sweet bottle opener
    [​IMG]
  18. r60man

    r60man Long timer

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    Centralish PA
    It was broke, so they fixed it!
    bwalsh likes this.
  19. +venture

    +venture Been here awhile Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2019
    Oddometer:
    194
    Location:
    Eastern Long Island
    Nice van. I had a 65 Dodge van in college. Two friends forged a NYS regi and inspection sticker and drove it from Binghamton to Port Jervis for me. I drove it back to my mom's in Westchester.
    Good times...

    You do great work. Keep it up!
    bwalsh likes this.
  20. bwalsh

    bwalsh Long timer

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    Actually, two came with the van...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    tony the tiger, Uke and Richarde1605 like this.