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Retro CE 2 gear recommendations

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Major_Tom, Jul 29, 2018.

  1. Major_Tom

    Major_Tom Adventurer

    Joined:
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    Hey all, I'm not sure I have the experience to call myself an ADV rider yet, but you guys seem to be the most vocal and knowledgeable about CE ratings so I have come to you for help in choosing gear. I posted an initial request for aid here, which has gone largely unanswered. The linked post includes the gear I currently have. In the meantime I've prepared a list of gear that I find aesthetically pleasing, and seems like they might be CE EN 13595-1 level 2 or CE EN 13634 2-2-2 certified or CE - CAT. II - 89/686/EEC DIRECTIVE level A, AA, or AAA. I've emailed the manufacturers but haven't heard anything back. If anyone can confirm the certification level of any of these please let me know and link documentation. Also, looking through you'll probably notice a distinct style, so if there's anything not listed that you think may fit the bill please do link it.

    Note: Only gear marked with a certification level is confirmed to be certified to that level. Certification documentation will be linked where available.

    Jackets: EN 13595-1 Level *
    . . . . . . . Pr EN 1709-3:2017 Class ***
    . . . . . . . CE - Category 2 - 89/686/EEC Directive ***
    Dainese: All of these are certified to CE - CAT. II - 89/686/EEC DIRECTIVE, no mention to A, AA, AAA
    Alpinestars:
    Icon1000:
    Roland Sands: -- talked to rob ramlose, no RSD jackets are CE certified yet, watch for CE certification beginning in fall 2019
    Spidi:

    Boots: EN 13634 *-*-*
    Spidi:
    Icon1000:
    TCX:
    Alpinestars:
    Roland Sands:
    Stylmartin
    BMW
    • Urban ** EN 13634 1-1-1 certified
    I had read elsewhere in this forum that the Icon1000 boots were 2-2-2 rated, but haven't found any corroborating documentation. I'm also on the lookout for a new helmet. My Schuberth s2 (LG 58-59) is comfortable, and I'm happy with the sound level, but I've had it for a few years and it only has a 3 star SHARP rating. I would like a helmet with dropdown sun visor, cutouts for bluetooth modules, and that will be quiet on my upright naked bike (xsr700). So far the best match seems to be the HJC IS-17. I'm also on the lookout for raingear to put on over my other gear that I can keep in the paniers. I like to look good on my bike but in the rain I would like to look like a highlighter, so any recommendations for a 2-piece that is fully waterproof, very hi-viz, relatively breathable, and won't break right away. I would much prefer full length zippers on both legs for ease of use. Abrasion resistance is a plus but not necessary since I will have the gear underneath. Thanks for any assistance


    Please PM me if the above list has any dead links
    #1
  2. Major_Tom

    Major_Tom Adventurer

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    Edit: added certs for X-nashville boot and Spidi Rock jacket
    #2
  3. squish

    squish Out of the office.

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    I have a RSD Baryfly perf, and it's been a great jacket.
    I'm very happy with it, a buddy had the Ronin, and he worked in the MC Industry and outdoor gear design and development.
    His words about the Ronin
    "Yeah, it's the best leather MC jacket I've ever had" Granted he was a friend of Roland's but he still payed for his Ronin with his hard earned cash.

    The only thing is, make sure you try RSD jackets on first, their sizing is a little wonky, I know on the barfly, the arms are small around but long and the body of the jacket is pretty big around the mid section, (and thankfully long in torso height)

    I like the Harrison but it's best for cold weather riding, Belstaff's leather trail master is also a very nice jacket I don't know if meets the standards.
    #3
    Major_Tom likes this.
  4. Major_Tom

    Major_Tom Adventurer

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    Thanks for the reply! Any idea to what level RSD stuff is certified? I've been all over thier website
    #4
  5. squish

    squish Out of the office.

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    I would hazard a guess since it's designed here in the US, owned by MAG and made in Pakistan or India
    That there is zero certification beyond the armor only.

    Personally, and this is coming from someone who worked in motorcycle safety research.
    There's not been a decent long term peer reviewed study on the effects of motorcycle PPE.
    I don't put a lot of weight behind those certification.
    #5
  6. Hammerdown77

    Hammerdown77 Long timer

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    I just got some TCX Hero WP boots and they are CE 13634:2015 certified.

    On the label inside the boot, there is also a "2 2 2", which I assume means level 2?
    #6
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  7. Major_Tom

    Major_Tom Adventurer

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    I understand your position, especially having looked into helmet certification. The standard methods and testing don't necessarily reflect the mechanisms of a real life crash. Nevertheless, in my opinion the testing does count for what it is, and can help inform our decisions and mitigate risk (looking at you denim), the question is just how much. All that said, when it comes down to a really nice jacket, and one that is Pr En 17092-3:2017 Class AA certified, I can take solace at least that in the latter case I am sure to have some protection if I am faced with a maniac with a belt-sander.

    Yes! That is very helpful! I quite like the whole TCX vintage line. Could you please post a picture of the label? The CE master list thread is a bit high on anecdotes I find. I will update the list above
    #7
    squish likes this.
  8. Hammerdown77

    Hammerdown77 Long timer

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    Sure, I'll do it when I get home
    #8
    Major_Tom likes this.
  9. Hammerdown77

    Hammerdown77 Long timer

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    0730181657.jpg
    0730181657_HDR.jpg
    0730181658_HDR.jpg
    #9
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  10. Crazski

    Crazski Adventurer

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    Those jackets are a wide variety of different hides and thicknesses some of which would offer greater slide times than others assuming the stitching does not come apart. I guess that is the issue when getting all caught up in what exactly is the CE rating of the elbow pads. Sheep is great if your club hoping but its not first or tenth pick if you have wreck and need the skin to perform literally on the road. Anyway I would just pay attention to that aspect as the industry tends to sell women leather that will make the jacket weigh less which depending on the material could be worse than industry standard cow hides you see alot of the time.

    Now to be a hypocrite I know suede is not the optimal finish and is not what you want in a slide but this jacket is such a heartbreaker! https://www.motofemmes.com.au/collections/tophalf/products/rdo-suede-jacket?variant=36111333383
    #10
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  11. Bkadv2

    Bkadv2 Been here awhile

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    #11
  12. Hammerdown77

    Hammerdown77 Long timer

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    I like those, don't know anything about 'em. They remind me a little of the Forma Cape Horn, with a different sole.
    #12
  13. Major_Tom

    Major_Tom Adventurer

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    I see what you mean, and full grain cow or kangaroo is gonna be good at sliding, but if the stitching is crap then the best armor doesn't do me any good if it doens't stay put. That's why I'm only getting CE rated stuff, because without those as a consumer all I can go on is PR terms of 'quality construction' or fanboys' brand loyalty. I get that something can be safe and not CE rated, but I'm gonna vote with my dollar on this and say as consumers we have a right to 3rd party quality controls and performance metrics provided by these CE ratings.

    Not my style but will add to the list. Do note that it says that it's CE certified but doesn't say whether its level one or two, so until someone can get me documentation or a pic of the label of the boot I'm not gonna list it as certified.
    #13
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  14. Crazski

    Crazski Adventurer

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    Walden Miller will make a 3.5oz kangaroo jacket if money is no object.
    #14
  15. jackbyo

    jackbyo @sunnysideup_mc

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    Funny thing about certifications... I was in the bike shop the other day looking at retro boots by alpinestars and TCX, both with "certified" armour inserts.
    None of them felt as substantial as my work-issued Magnum combat boots that I ride in most days. Yep the little discs over the malleolus apparently come with a certification, but the entire chassis of the retro boots were flexible and thin.
    And aside from those discs, my classic style brown thorogood Work boots are just as substantial as the retro moto boots.

    Feet are at a huge risk in a motorcycle crash. Most common injury in a crash is feet (aside from heads without a helmet)
    Take certifications with a grain of salt, and look after your feet.
    #15
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  16. Major_Tom

    Major_Tom Adventurer

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    Yeah, they like to be sneaky with their certs. CE 1621 refers to impact protection. 13634 refers specifically to boots and their abrasion-cut-crush resistance and the latter will be specified as 1-1-1 or 2-2-2 or 2-1-2 or some such. I hate that finding certified and good gear is such a chore. Consumers definitely deserve more transparency
    #16
  17. jackbyo

    jackbyo @sunnysideup_mc

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    Absolutely. I went down the same cert rabbit hole as you once, and also started to find that some manufacturers say "CE Certified" when it's just certified for splash resistance, or CE certified for gardening or some other such bullshit.
    Also, "tested", "certified" and "approved" all mean different things.

    here's a good article
    https://www.webbikeworld.com/ce-certified-vs-approved/
    #17
  18. Hammerdown77

    Hammerdown77 Long timer

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    I'll be honest, when I got the TCX Hero boots, I thought they were REALLY nice boots, I liked the style, the sole construction was solid (unlike some other $300+ offerings in this category), good leather that should age nicely.

    However, other than the shift pads on the toe and the TPU (I think?) disks over the heel....I had a hard time believing this boot was any more protective than a plain Redwing or Thorogood leather boot. And not a steel toe version.

    The leather is soft, not at all very stiff, and they were immediately comfortable. The sole is probably the most protective element. It is fairly stout, and can't be twisted, so it should protect in that regard. Even though reviews claim toe and heel protection, there seems to be very little. I can press in the toe without a whole lot of effort.

    I haven't officially "claimed" these, as I've just worn them around the house trying to decide if I'll keep them, thinking that I'd be better off just saving some money and buying another vintage-looking workboot style that's not moto specific. However, when you price boots that are in the same realm of build quality, and features (remember, this one is water proof, or should be with the liner), equivalent offerings from Thorogood are about the same price. And Redwings are $100 more. I have some Corcoran jump boots that are likely more protective, and I only paid $125 for, but damnit they are not an attractive piece of footwear (at least to me).

    With that considered, and the fact these appear to be very attractive, well made boots, moto or otherwise, I'll likely keep them.
    #18
  19. squish

    squish Out of the office.

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    I don't know about this boot, but I've seen a couple other Stylmartin boots and I was not impressed by the quality of the construction or leather.
    They look cool but they just aren't a very well made boot or made out of high quality parts
    Not unlike Dr Martins.
    #19
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  20. Bkadv2

    Bkadv2 Been here awhile

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    Any cool looking adventure boot with sufficient protection?
    #20