I picked up a pair of Sand 4 pants today. I tried them last night at local store that had them at a great price, but I didn't have my gear since I was in the jeep, and I wanted to see how they'd work out with my jacket and boots, as well as with pants inside since I didn't want to take the liners out last night (got there close to closing). I took a chance they'd be there yet. It was a beautiful spring day at 68*, and I headed out as soon as I could since I had a few odd jobs to do and would be riding. I couldn't find them at first and was pissed with myself for not grabbing them the night before. Luckily, the store clerk had put them on a liquidation rack by mistake the night before after I tried them. My take after a 200km day in them at 68*: Quality: It's very early and I'll update if needed, but they seem like a very sturdy build. I could find no flaws in stitching or zipper fits. They seem well thought out and executed. The only major update I'd like would be some leather inside the calves...and a zipper fly so I don't have to go trousers down to take a leak ;-) Fit (XL Standard): I'm just shy of 6'3, 220lbs, 33 or 34 waist depending on jeans brand, true 33" inseam - athletic. I had been wearing a pair of Sloppy Joe's (Rocket) Ballistik in XL because the L were too short. I hated those pants - huge, floppy, too much extra material, and never knew where the knee pads were. On the upside, I could almost wear my ski-doo pants under them in colder weather. Simply put, these fit on the small side. They have slightly larger legs than the Sand 3, which I prefer, but I'd never get jeans on with either of the liners in. When I tried them on last night, they were definitely too small for that, but I brought a pair today to try under the shell alone and once you moved around a little to get everything in place they were fine - comfortable even. I felt the 3's I tried were tighter in the thighs with jeans inside shell. The waist, set at the tightest setting, fits me fine despite the fit chart that puts them more in the 38 range. With liners in or out, in just gitch, the adjustments were at their tightests, but I doubt the large would have fit me better. Length-wise, I wanted to see where they'd be with my boots. I was worried I'd need the Tall, but the Standard fit perfectly - they gather properly at the bottom when standing (never under the heal), and rise just above the ankle when mounting the bike. I don't like the idea of material ever gathering near my heal in the event I need to dab or bail. The knee pads are set perfectly for me out of the box, and are where they should be when riding, although I did have to reallign the velcro so it didn't scrape on my skin. The legs are a slimmer fit than the old Joe Rockets I had - they're Euro, but the Euro gent they measured played some rugby ;-) Features: The ventilation works great. I left the store with the shells on over gitch - packed my jeans and the liners. Again, it was 20*c out - not terribly hot, but I only opened the vents a little at the last 50km or so. I don't see them being problematic in our typicall summer weather (30/86*). The fit, to me, is a feateure as well - they sit large enough to allow for airflow, while being tight enough to not risk catching on anything they shouldn't. In the vein of fit, they have adjustment features that work well at both the waist and calves, and the zipper calf makes like easier with your boots if you aren't using the liners. Storage is impressive - very useful pockets, with two main thigh pockets that can be easily accessed with my riding gloves (Baja 4). Protection - the shell is very robust and looks like it could handle a slide. The knee padding is very nice - you barely notice it's there, but it's CE/2, so great protection. I may look at options to upgrade the CE/1 hip protection, but I can live with it as is. Major Score - whether by accident, design, or simple cost cutting, Rev'it saw fit to use the same zip attachment system from the Sand 3 line, meaning either piece will mate up with the other to take advantage of that safety feature. I really appreciate this since I prefer the look of my khaki Sand 3 jacket over anything in the 4 jacket line (all personal taste, but a happy outcome for my tastes). Take-aways: I didn't mention much about the lining for a reason. It's great in that it zips in, top and bottom, so it is very comfortable and I'm sure will make life easier when getting them off and on in wet conditions. That said, riding into unexpected rain with them on would absolutely suck. It's a bit of a polarizing topic, and I'm on the side of having waterproof outers when I'm going anywhere committed. A day ride is one thing when I know I can hang the gear up in the garage to dry before their next use, but a kit this heavy will take quite some time to dry outside, which is no fun if you're living in a tent for a couple days. That in mind, after buying a high-end pair of techical pants, I will now go out and splurge on a waterproof shell to fit over them - the function and fit still make them worth what I paid to me because of the temperature swings we get here in Quebec, and I have my Scott riding jeans that get used for most of my local riding anyway. They are a very clean looking pant, and I went with black to better suit the colour of my jacket...both will be a pleasant shade of filthy soon enough ;-) I'll update this if there are any significant changes.