Right cylinder blue smoke on an R80/7. Oh dear...

Discussion in 'Airheads' started by Blackburn Buccaneer, Feb 27, 2019.

  1. Piggdekk

    Piggdekk love speed, hate rush

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    besides, You can just back off completely valve play on the rockers and go ahead and remove the heads. You'll need to reset it anyway.
    luca
    #81
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  2. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    spin the pushrods with your fingers. if both spin freely, remove the head. being on TDC is not critical. lst time i pulled a set, i didn't even look, but I was careful with the nuts on the rocker blocks.
    #82
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  3. Blackburn Buccaneer

    Blackburn Buccaneer Been here awhile

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    They're off! Will post some pics later. Right side valve guide is leaking a lot of oil, good thing they're off to the machine shop after this.

    Left side looks pretty mint, definitely been opened up not too long ago just like the PO said. Right side looks worse, shit ton of carbon probably due to that leaking valve guide.

    I see no grooves worn into the cilinders, thought a ring could've snapped and caused some of the shavings I've been seeing in the oil. Still going to have to look for a source of those shavings and the slight metallic hue in the engine oil every time I drain it. Is that normal? Any suspects?

    Could be the oil pump is on its way out. I'm gonna pull the trans some time in the near future so then I can check that out. The shavings aren't too bad, but I'd rather have none.
    #83
  4. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    steel shavings or aluminum shavings?
    #84
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  5. bpeckm

    bpeckm Grin! Supporter

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    Good news on the heads, looks like you've found the culprit for the right-side blue smoke!

    Metallic hue? Shavings? Certainly NOT normal! Might be worth sending oil out for analysis, or at least you take a look under a microscope to see wft is going on...

    :D
    #85
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  6. Blackburn Buccaneer

    Blackburn Buccaneer Been here awhile

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    Just rotated the engine a bit and theres some nicely machined grooves in the right AND left cilinders just beyond where the pistons were sitting. Well there's the source of the metallic hue, I think.

    The larger 'shavings' are some sort of gasket sealer upon closer inspection now that they're out of the oil; they look like aluminium shavings but they're rubbery. I found quite a lot of it in the oil passages in the right head. Also saw some in the filter a while ago when I changed the oil. It's some sort of grey goo.

    The smaller particles are magnetic.

    Yeah it's definitely the valve guides causing the smoke!

    I think I have the cause for the metal shavings isolated now. It didn't have any nasty oil contamination when I changed the oil before it started smoking a lot just after we bought it. Still going to have a closer look at possible culprits like the oil pump and what have you. Might get some oil shipped off, good one there.
    #86
  7. Blackburn Buccaneer

    Blackburn Buccaneer Been here awhile

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    Alright time for some pics:

    This is the port cilinder and piston. They're pretty clean:
    [​IMG]

    Left side head also looking pretty tidy:
    [​IMG]

    The crime scene:
    [​IMG]

    Pulling the starboard side next:
    [​IMG]

    Prepped it for a 3 week hibernation on my parents' messy porch while waiting for the heads to come back:
    [​IMG]
    #87
  8. Piggdekk

    Piggdekk love speed, hate rush

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    These heads don't look bad at all, always worth having them refurbished but I doubt they are the reason for the smoke. Are You having the cylinders measured?
    luca
    #88
  9. Blackburn Buccaneer

    Blackburn Buccaneer Been here awhile

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    Nope, I'm putting on a siebenrock 1000cc power kit.

    Anyone in Europe looking for a set of used 800cc cilinders? They'll only cost you some shipping
    #89
  10. bpeckm

    bpeckm Grin! Supporter

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    I don't know if it makes any difference, but any time I have the heads off and the bike will sit for a while, I use my down-n-dirty system to hold the jugs in place:
    [​IMG]
    I just cut some pvc conduit to rough length and use a large washer and the head nuts, torqued "just enough".....:-)
    #90
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  11. tsADV

    tsADV Been here awhile

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    Any pictures of the nicely machined grooves?

    If you've scheduled a 3 week wait for the heads, I'd pull the cylinders now, and also check the cam followers and the camshaft lobes. If any work is needed, best to get it started ASAP, when the heads are away.

    I assume the Siebenrock kit came with new pushrod tube grommets? Always worth putting on new ones when the barrels are off.
    #91
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  12. Steve W.

    Steve W. Boxer Pilot

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    If looking for a source of aluminum particles in the oil. A worn cam chain rubbing the case is a known point of wear on the duplex type. Cheeers
    #92
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  13. Cogswell

    Cogswell Trying to live the new normal.

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    Looking at the left side head and piston, it looks like the motor was recently apart and cleaned. Print on the head gasket is almost pristine too... :hmmmmm
    #93
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  14. Jim K in PA

    Jim K in PA Long timer Supporter

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    That left head has been stamped BETZ 1017. Name of the prior owner and date of machine work, perhaps?
    #94
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  15. bmwrench

    bmwrench Long timer

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    When I was the Head Guy at Bob's BMW, each set of heads got stamped with the owner's name, or part of it, along with the RO number. There'd sometimes be as many as 20 sets of heads in the queue, so we had to ID them.
    #95
  16. Jim K in PA

    Jim K in PA Long timer Supporter

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    And as a customer, am pleased to see you continuing that practice.
    #96
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  17. Blackburn Buccaneer

    Blackburn Buccaneer Been here awhile

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    Yeah I did some preps this weekend. Should be a smooth operation when the heads return.

    I'm planning to run through and check up on everything once we put it back together.

    Cheers, I'll go around and see what I can find. Any easy way to check on this?

    Nope, not he PO as far as I know, but the heads have been off recently. PO had cylinders bored and new rings put in, but I think he might not have run them in correctly as they're causing the wear on the walls. He also said the heads had been redone, but the right side head was clearly leaking oil via the valve guides. Could be crappy craftsmanship, could be badly run in. I'll have to wait and see what the machine shop says.


    I'll also add that compression was absolutely rubbish when I measured it and the case was pouring oil from over-pressure, so the rings were defo bad along with the head. It was running okay though, besides the smoke and a slight lack of power.
    The whole drivetrain, brakes and suspension have also been refurbished by me and the PO so that's all in order. That's why I felt confident enough to order the Siebenrock kit.
    #97
  18. Blackburn Buccaneer

    Blackburn Buccaneer Been here awhile

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    Thanks for all the replies guys!
    #98
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  19. Blackburn Buccaneer

    Blackburn Buccaneer Been here awhile

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    Thanks for the tip, I just left it the way it was for now, maybe I'll do this next weekend! Someone used sealer on the base of the cylinders, so it sticks. It almost looks like there's a gasket on there, but I'm pretty sure it's just sealer.

    I wasn't planning on re-sealing the base of the cylinders with anything. Is that a good or a bad idea?
    #99
  20. Piggdekk

    Piggdekk love speed, hate rush

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    The general consensus is that they should be sealed with a tiny amount of sealant. I always used and never had leaks.
    luca
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