Righto. 'Fess up. Who bought a CRF450L?

Discussion in 'Australia' started by FatBoyCrash, Dec 20, 2018.

  1. GSXR

    GSXR Trail Rider

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    Engine oil is separate from gear / clutch oil in these BW. WOT / race conditions are tougher on oil for sure
    #61
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  2. BygDaddee

    BygDaddee Where do I get a pie

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    Huh, you sure

    #62
  3. GSXR

    GSXR Trail Rider

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    ....about which part? The oil analysis fact sheet which I don't have, or the separation idea. Aren't all CRF 250 / 450s?
    #63
  4. KASUYAHO

    KASUYAHO Long timer

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    That issue there can be overcome too by using a different / better oil.

    That's what i do anyways, just better insurance i believe.
    #64
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  5. GodSilla

    GodSilla I did that.

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    The issue wasn't to do with the quality of the oil. The problem occurred when service intervals were not adhered to, and the oil became over-contaminated. Too much fine stuff being held in suspension.The design of that particular motor relied on oil pressure (as opposed to volume) for lubrication, and used fine oil spray jets in the head. Ignore the oil changes a few times and the crud just built up in the little jets and blocked them, strangling the oil supply to critical head components, most notably the camshaft. The issue is dirty/contaminated oil, where the owners ignore the service intervals thinking the oil will be OK, well the oil is technically OK for lubrication properties but contaminated to the point where it is unfit for the job in that particular motor. Stick it in a Kawa9 of the same vintage and it will run for another 100,000 k's.

    FWIW, I used to use the expensive motorex full synthetic, but by crikey it was expensive and I felt financially obliged to run it to the full service interval, by which time it was pretty grotty. Now I use cheap-as-chips diesel oil and change it whenever it discolours, so around every 2k or so. The oil is still well within spec but fairly clean when I dump it, and it is sooooo cheap. The bike motors seem to love the stuff, and I always have fresh clean oil in my motors.

    Ignoring service periods requires an understanding of exactly what you are doing. The oil may remain viscous but can still be unsuitable after short periods.
    #65
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  6. Fearless Whetu

    Fearless Whetu Aussi Kiwi

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    Wow, four pages and this has degenerated into an oil thread :lol3:lol3:jack

    I'll show myself out.
    #66
  7. GodSilla

    GodSilla I did that.

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    To be fair, it is topical and to do with service intervals on the bike the thread is about. I don't blame you though......:rofl
    #67
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  8. BygDaddee

    BygDaddee Where do I get a pie

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    An oil change interval of 2000km on a WRF with good semi syn when trail/ADV riding leaves oil that really looks like it could go further, and while i havent done analysis, history shows the engines last just fine doing this.

    So i really cant see these Hondas being any worse off, in reality should be better with the lower compression and 3rd ring.

    I wouldnt hesitate to run oil 2500 or 3000 in the WR if a ride dictated it, and if i bought a CRF450L would expect to be able to do same.
    #68
  9. Fearless Whetu

    Fearless Whetu Aussi Kiwi

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    I know, I'm just playing
    #69
  10. KASUYAHO

    KASUYAHO Long timer

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    Sounds like to me that those clogged oil nozzles are not from contaminated oil,
    as contaminated oil becomes less in viscosity.
    I think you will find that what was happening as oil break down.

    Discoloration of oil mainly comes from carbon molecules suspended in the oil.
    Nothing to worry about.
    Keep the air filters clean.

    Yeah too right those full synthetic oil can be expensive.
    But in saying that if they were not cost effective there would not be a market for them.

    I hear a lot of guys using that deisel oil in there bikes as it is cheap,
    then working on the theory of changing it more frequent.
    Myself i would not run that oil in my Africa Twin which has 12,000km oil change intervals.
    If i ran that diesel oil stuff i would have to change the oil 6 times at 4 lites per oil change.
    And use a cheap oil in my engine, no way.
    I just don't understand that logic.

    But i am a bit anal in that way GS
    #70
  11. crash n bern

    crash n bern Long timer

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    Think about how much it costs to rebuild a Diesel engine in a prime mover and how many miles it does between oil changes. Then think about if the companies running them would be putting crap oil in them.

    The diesel oil people refer to isn’t cheap oil, $50-60 for 4 litres is not exactly cheap oil, but it is in comparison to some of the exotic boutique motorcycle oils. It can also be bought in bulk quantities which of course lowers the price some more.

    I run Penrite 20/60 mineral diesel oil in my Harley (There’s a joke there, I know) I change the oil every 10,000k’s and have over 100,000k’s on her. Peeked into the timing case for some upgrades at 60,000k’s and no signs of wear on cams etc. In fact the factory manual recommends that if you can’t source genuine Harley oil then use diesel oil.

    On the Husaberg forum a lot of blokes run Delo 400 in Aus. In the states they run Rotella (Different formula to Aus Rotella so not recommended for bikes here)
    This is mostly in pre 09 Husaberg’s. There’s a lot of owners of these old Berg’s that are mechanics, engineers, mad tinkerer’s and so forth and they all swear by Delo 400 and the US Rotella.
    Keep in mind these engines only run 900 ml of oil and were designed to win a race and nothing more. Everything is minimalistic for that one purpose. So if blokes around the world are keeping race bikes that are over 10 years old alive and swearing by deisel oil what does that tell you. I run the Delo 400 in my 650 Berg.

    However in saying all that I would still be cautious of what engine I put deisel oil in. If the Africa Twin has been designed for 12,000k oil changes using a specific synthetic oil then I would probably stick to that. A lot of deisel oils aren’t suited to motorcycle engines. As far as I know only the Delo 400 15/40 mineral oil, and the Penrite for Harley’s. I wouldn’t use any others.

    And if I bought a CRF450L I’d probably chuck the Delo in that, just to keep this thread on track.
    #71
  12. KASUYAHO

    KASUYAHO Long timer

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    I can see your point running eg: Delo in your bikes

    What I am looking at extending the 450L 1,000 km oil change schedule out a bit if someone / my son does a multi day ride over a few thousand km.
    As an example.
    When ridng the 650R i have on a multi day ride and covering a few thousand km, ( Honda states oil change at 1,000 km )
    i thought i may step up in quality oil just for some insurance / peace of mind to extend the oil change interval.

    So i went a Synthetic oil.
    Oil companies are starting to make Synthetic diesel oil for extended oil change schedules.
    #72
  13. GodSilla

    GodSilla I did that.

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    The first para, you say oil becomes less viscous (thinner) through contamination? No, it's use that wears out the viscosity additives. The same use causes contamination, but the contamination doesn't thin the oil per se.

    Carbon particles are suspended in oil as it gets dirtier and are the visible contaminant you see, but it also holds a range of other contaminants. This is why some oils are high-detergent, to keep the sludge from forming on working surfaces, which is what blocks the fine oil mist jets in the early Honda 4's. Oil sludge.

    While the Delo 400 diesel oil is relatively cheap ($5/litre in 20 litre drums here) it is not a "cheap" oil. The economic price makes frequent oil changes a no-brainer, and having clean, fresh Delo 400 in your bike 6 times in 12k will be better for the motor than holding one batch for 12k in the sump, getting dirtier and dirtier. I could understand not using Woolies brand oil for instance, but the Delo 400 works fine in all my petrol and diesel motors (except one, which has a DPF and requires a more expensive oil).

    I'm not recommending it for your A/T as I know bugger-all about them and what they require, but while the cheap price isn't the main attraction of using diesel oil it certainly helps to make it attractive.
    #73
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  14. KASUYAHO

    KASUYAHO Long timer

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    Cheers for your input GS, always good to see others opinions and how they come to those conclusions.

    My math:
    12,000km service limit, delo 400, 6 oil changes, $5 a liter, 4.1 liters in the engine, 24.6 liters to the enviroment, total cost for oil = $123.00
    12,000km plus, Mobil 1 4T 10W-40, 4.1 liter, one oil change = $65.00

    Keep the air filters clean and Mobil 1 will be better by far for your engine.
    If Delo was so great they would use it for engines in, NASCAR, F1, MotoGP, NHRA, IHRA, V8 Supercars etc.

    Anyways to keep on topic i do oil changes on my 650R @ 5,000km. using Mobil 1.
    Pulled it down to change the valves, no scuffing, cam lobes, rockers, bore all in spec, no sludge, very clean inside the engine.

    Leave ya's with it, off to look at DAKAR.
    #74
  15. BygDaddee

    BygDaddee Where do I get a pie

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    What i dont get about your logic is why you think good quality diesel engine oil that meets the same specs as bike oil would need changing so often

    The diesel oils I’ve used since the year 2000’s is designed for 15,000km oil changes

    #75
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  16. AUSSIEADV

    AUSSIEADV 2wo left foots

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    Mobil 1 in Nascar, F1, MotoGP, NHRA, V8 Supercars. Who would have thought!
    #76
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  17. crash n bern

    crash n bern Long timer

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    http://husaberg.org/tech/17644-oils-aint-oils-2.html

    Some interesting points made by Bushmechanic. If you haven’t read any posts by him before, he’s a mechanical engineer who’s built a 700 Husaberg with nitrous oxide that runs a paddle tyre and has an 80k loop sand track out the back of his shed.
    #77
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  18. KASUYAHO

    KASUYAHO Long timer

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    Yeah interesting points for sure.
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  19. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    If you follow the link to UHE above you'll note that I get better cam follower needle bearing life with Delo 400 than with Mobil 1 R4t.

    Nevertheless, I am switching to a Lubealloy product that will be specifically formulated for my DR790s gearbox needs, and any other air cooled hot running engine with integrated gearbox.

    Now back to CRFLs; http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2019/01/2019-honda-crf450l-md-ride-review-part-1/ "Fuel injection mapping, and throttle response, are outstanding."
    #79
  20. KASUYAHO

    KASUYAHO Long timer

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    Why do you think you got better life from cam follower needle bearings ?

    Lack of oil ?
    Design problem ?
    #80