RMP

Discussion in 'Canada' started by Commuter Boy, Feb 3, 2011.

  1. DaveBall

    DaveBall Long timer

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    A lot of the problems dealers in Canada face is that they have to buy their products thru a Canadian Distributor that just does not care. Most of the manufacturers will NOT sell directly to the Canadian dealers due to the distributors exclusive rights in their contracts. This is very evident when you can go to just about any dealer and ask who they buy thru. All of them are the same. So they all pay the same price for the goods, which is way over what the average guy can buy the goods for, at full blow retail in the USA. Then they wonder why the Canadian Dealers go out of business.

    It would make a lot of sense if the dealers got themselves organized and found a way to purchase directly from manufacturers. Get rid of the monopolies that these distributors have developed over the past 40-50 years. But, most dealers say that they are too small to make a difference. No, they are just not being good savvy businessmen in the modern age.

    This has been an ongoing problem for over 40 years. A simple example I can quote was back in 1981, I had a nice little naked Honda GL500. I badly wanted a full fairing for it, but did not want what the local dealers in Vancouver had to offer. I saw exactly what I wanted at a dealer in Portland and checked out a bunch of adds in M/C mags (this was pre internet). I went to numerous dealers in Vancouver who carried the Shoei brand of small handlebar fairings and asked how much to get the GF-1 fulll size fairing. They all came in with pricing around $1500 and would have to wait at least 6-8 weeks for it to come thru the distributor in Toronto. I made a phone call to a dealer in California and had one delivered to my door in 4 days for under $500. Now can someone explain why the dealers in Canada needed to get an extra $1000 out of me and make me wait an extra 5 weeks or more? Now, that was 30 years ago. Today, it is even better for the consumer as we can check online in seconds to see if we are getting ripped off locally or not.

    I would prefer to buy locally, but I am not going to pay a premium to do so. I work hard for my money and if I can save 30-70% and get it delivered directly to my door. Guess who gets my sale?

    The dealers who go out of business only have themselves to blame. In our society, if you cannot compete, then you are doomed. They have to keep up with the times. The internet is here to stay and consumers are becoming more and more intelligent on how they spend their money. I am sorry to see some of these dealers go, but it isn't enough today to have a love of motorcycles to stay in business. You need to really know how to run a business in the modern age.
    #21
  2. RHSwimmer

    RHSwimmer Big Fish

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    The major brands have moved their franchises from the business of selling and servicing motorcycles to selling and servicing a brand. There are very few bondafide motorcycle shops these days.
    #22
  3. the kaz

    the kaz has become "FERAL"

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    I am definatly the same if the prices were 10-20% different I probably would not mind buying canadian BUT at 100% or more it is basic economics.....and yes I declare everything and have yet to pay taxes or duties on anything :D
    #23
  4. DaveBall

    DaveBall Long timer

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    I wonder how many new bike dealers read the stuff on here? It would good for them to pay attention to the buying public. Myself, I can't be bothered voicing opinions to the people who work there, as they are only doing their job as best they can. It is the owners and general managers of these dealerships that are out of touch with the marketing world.
    #24
  5. Hockeygod

    Hockeygod Been here awhile

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    "I wonder how many new bike dealers read the stuff on here? It would good for them to pay attention to the buying public. Myself, I can't be bothered voicing opinions to the people who work there, as they are only doing their job as best they can. It is the owners and general managers of these dealerships that are out of touch with the marketing world. " DAVEBALL


    I agree with both statements. We are getting gouged. I urge people to support their local shop IF they are getting great service AND ONLY paying slightly more for parts, etc. Otherwise, do your research, shopping and purchasing online (primarily from the USA). If enough consumers do this, Parts Canada will have less stealers / dealers to sell to; maybe Parts Canada will start to figure it out?

    And maybe the dealers will start to talk about banding together to give Parts Canada the heave-ho (or at least pressure them to get Parts Canada to realize that they need to sell to the dealers at competitive prices - else they will kill the golden goose?)

    A competitive, free-market economy exists in a democracy.

    Change, adapt, evolve or die out. Thanks Darwin!
    #25
  6. shipwrek12001

    shipwrek12001 Shipwrek

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    there are two dealers here in ontario, that do alot of online dealing, avisicous cycle a dual sport plus.... they "seem" to be doing well, based on the vocals they get on the canadian thread.

    i was at a dealer looking to get a windshield, online 65$ plus shipping. at the dealer, they quoted me $150 plus $200 for the hard ware to mount it. I went home to email the manufacturer about hardware extra. In caps, he quoted, if they are charging you extra for hardware they are ripping you off.

    What is one thinking after that email. This is more about free trade isn't it?

    So if you don't buy your bike from a local dealer and don't spend all your money at that dealer. When you do decide to go in to get something or order something. i'm an ass wipe cause he can't compete. So i should just stop biking cause he doesn't want my money either...

    if the dealers would just look at each customer as a opportunity to make a loyal customer, don't treat walkins like sh.t. Have a online effort, cause this is the way of business model today. give us something to go in for other than spending money. While were there we just might spend what they need to stay open.

    Bs in is Bs out of business. They can go to the elected officials, scream unfair bus. practice.

    I just spent 10k in dealers and online.... i got WAAAAYYYY better service on line.... the dealers here can go belly up for all i care..... time for new blood anyway....

    sorry just very sore at a dealer here, and the other dealer couldn't care if he picked me up as a customer... sorry for the rant!!!
    #26
  7. SubMann

    SubMann Vancouver Island, fun fun

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    Funny thing is, I'm sure the dealers know how to use the Internet as well. They can't be thick enough to not price check. And do they hope that every customer who comes through the door doesn't know how to use the Internet as well? Some of our Canadian online retailers have great prices. They must know how to use the Internet.

    So yes the dealers should know their market and they should bitch to their suppliers. Do you think the suppliers are happy that shops are closing? Maybe the suppliers don't know how to use computers...
    #27
  8. FuTAnT

    FuTAnT KTM 990ADV

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    Bit of a threadjack, but hey, I'm new in town. Are there actually any decent KTM V-Twin dealers in town? Looking to see what's happening on an Adventure or a 690 Enduro. Err, and it is a bummer about bike dealers closing down. If they're crap I guess they deserve to go the way of the dodo, but if they're a decent shop it makes getting supplies n bikes that bit harder.
    #28
  9. IKIGAI

    IKIGAI Been here awhile

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    Holeshot -- 201st Street, Langley

    http://www.holeshotracing.ca/
    #29
  10. Bill 310

    Bill 310 Poser Emeritus Super Supporter

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    I appreciate your fear mongering / concern but it doesn't work here.

    Why would anyone smuggle parts when they are half price, duty free, and readily available?

    There will always be motorcycle shops in Canada, just not as many. We had an oversupply.This happened to car dealerships earlier.

    You are aware that certain Vancouver shops import and sell US bikes to Canadian customers ?

    I think everyone here would rather buy in Canada, if the price was the same, the parts were as easily available, and the service levels of the shops were equal. I could deal with a currency differential of some form

    Until the manufacturer's realize cross border shopping is here to stay and lower prices this will continue. Porsche adjusts for currency on new models - this is not a new concept.

    Go on a long trip and need parts or service and then tell me which country you want to break down in.

    Motorcycles are a discretionary purchase and in a slowing economy many riders give up riding, defer their purchase, or buy less bike.

    The real issues are the strength of the Canadian dollar, free trade and the proximity of Canada's 12 month riders (lower mainland of BC and Vancouver Island) to the US market place and US mailboxes, and the cruiser market is still over-saturated with inventory.

    On another note, why would anyone who tours in the US buy a motorcycle that can't be serviced there - e.g. the Honda Veradero. Honda Canada has some serious issues starting with Powersports dealerships.

    I went to Modern when they were "closing" and bought a few flats of oil because it was cheap.

    I needed a tank bag for my KTM for a longer trip and had no choice but to buy it in Kelowna for 3 times the US price. Needless to say, that reinforces one's desire to buy where the parts and accessories are less costly.

    Stop blaming the consumer, we are educated and have the internet at our fingertips. Many US shops have an internet store and they encourage their customers to buy there for less.

    The dealerships have to look inwards and to the manufacturer's for a solution. These failures are not the fault of astute Canadians buying south of the border. Educated consumers, are a convenient foil, not the real reason.
    #30
  11. Bill 310

    Bill 310 Poser Emeritus Super Supporter

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    The were still some new 2007 990 Adventures available in the states a few months ago. You could get a new one for about 10,000 US. KTM Canada stopped allowing their importation after 2007. I paid 10,999 US for mine in the fall of 2007 and imported it. Holeshot wanted $17,000 for a new 2006 950.

    Ask to see their LC8 Diagnostic Computer that is required to work on your bike for Mapping upgrades, finding a real LC8 certified dealer in Canada with the tools and techs is a challenge.


    #31
  12. Twinsport

    Twinsport Adventurer

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    I have been buying south of the boarder for years. Even with our dollar at 65 cents it was cheaper to buy outside Canada. It seems to me that the real killer of the motorcycle industry in canada is the distributors.
    I think the new trend of self importing shops will survive, as will companies like Olympia Motorsports who will not to my knowledge sell to parts Canada or Motovan, you want to sell their product you buy from them.
    #32
  13. DaveBall

    DaveBall Long timer

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    I wish that all the dealers would band together and do their own importing. Make the middle man go belly up instead. This should be done for everything, from parts and farkles to brand new bikes. Everyone keeps saying that we are in a "Global Economy", then it is about time everything else went global as well. You should be able to buy any bike you want that passes the appropriate testing from anywhere you want. Just proove that it passes when you import it. Make the manufacturers issue a form with each bike stating exactly what standards it meets which match up with which countries. Then you could buy that brand new Ducatti or Ural or Brand XYZ in the USA or Uraguay and be able to import it here with no hassles. Or, you could go thru a local dealer and have them import it for you and pay them a nominal fee to do so. You would be paying the price that it costs wherever it is coming from along with a small "paper work" fee and actual shipping. Instead of the huge markups that the distributors want and the dealers would not have to hold so many bikes on their sales floor, hoping they will all sell before the next model comes out.
    #33
  14. MCMXCIVRS

    MCMXCIVRS Long timer

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    What really irks me is when the distributor locks down the country and prevents other retailers who are selling for half the price outside of the country from being able to sell to me. They know damn well they are overpriced and make damn sure that you have nowhere else to buy without physically going out of the country.
    #34
  15. Bill 310

    Bill 310 Poser Emeritus Super Supporter

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    You are a bright boy, it takes just a little effort to get around this type of tom foolery attempted by these businesses. Touratech comes to mind as one organization that has done this, but their stuff is really not that good so no real loss there.

    Option 1

    get an American friend to buy the stuff for you.

    Option 2

    Next time you are in the states open a US bank account and get a US Credit or debit card (sometimes I have heard the Cdn bank codes will catch non us purchasers), then have your new US CC use your US mailing address.

    Set up a new free email account, turn on your next laptop in the US when you are setting it up (isp) and shop away.




    #35
  16. nvdlboy

    nvdlboy Long timer

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    I've only been into RMS a couple of times, had my bike serviced there last Sept. They had a much smaller display at the motorcycle show this year too (at least by my memory). Too bad as I quite like dealing with Ben.
    As for shopping in the States, I have used a place in the U.S. to receive goods that I purchased on-line (including a replacement Garmin DVD, Caribou Cases, Givi luggage, etc.), have saved LOTS on shipping costs and avoided the mark up by the Canadian distributors on certain items. I agree that dealerships need to remain competitive, especially when they're located so close to the border and on-line shopping is so easy; the issue with Canadian distributors needs to get sorted out or they won't have many dealers left to sell to. It drives me crazy when helmets and gear are often double the cost in Canada; no wonder people go into dealerships to try on gear and then order on-line or pick up in the States.
    A couple of years ago, I bought a Yakima Skybox and a bicycle carrier from Rack Attack in Portland for less than half the price I would have paid for the Skybox alone at their Vancouver BC store. The fellow in Portland told me that they get tons of Canadians purchasing Yakima and Thule products down there because the Canadian distributor jacks the prices up so high that the Canadian retail shops are screwed. FYI - Yakima and Thule products were duty free and OR doesn't have sales tax, so the savings were huge.
    #36
  17. nvdlboy

    nvdlboy Long timer

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    Thanks for the tip on Lordco pricing for Thule; I was looking specifically at Yakima back in 2007 and the pricing for both Thule and Yakima products in Canada was somewhat obscene at the time compared to the U.S. A friend of mine has sold Yakima and Thule products for many years at his ski shop and he couldn't even touch the prices that I found in the U.S. without losing money.
    #37
  18. Twinsport

    Twinsport Adventurer

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    I will. So if there are no more motorcycle shops left who are the distributors going to sell to? The public?
    I know one shop that for everyone I ever talked to never left that store with a feeling of good will. It has to be a two way street. Yes the shop owner has a right to make money, thats why he is there. However the shop owner must judge how much profit to make before the customer base goes elsewhere. Its a fine line. One shops parts manager says Ide rather make 20 bucks off it than the customer buy it off the net. That shop is still thriving.
    I have begun buying some parts from europe now. Granted they arent available here but they are actually cheaper than if I walked in off the street. I save the VAT 18% about 50 EU shipping 25 EU and the postman comes to the door and oh my its airmail so no HST
    I hope more manufactures go the way of Olympia Motorsport and refuse to deal with distributors, the real enemy of the Canadian motorcycle industry.
    The shop with go on my friend. They will just adapt for their parts.
    #38
  19. Motorcycho

    Motorcycho Been here awhile

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    I drive by RichmondMS everyday and it looks like stuff is still inside. Sure they aint remodelling or something... or did they go bankrupt and waiting for stuff to be removed? or ???
    #39
  20. RblueR

    RblueR Been here awhile

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    I stopped by RMS the other day. There's a notice posted on the door claiming they are "taking inventory and remodelling". Were to reopen Feb.12th. They're still closed.
    #40