Royal Enfield Himalayan Owners Thread

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Anthiron, Sep 2, 2017.

  1. Eatmore Mudd

    Eatmore Mudd Mischief on wheels.

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    Some folks ( like my pal Jimbo ) ride in a style to not need ABS. For him and folks like him ABS is just added weight cost and complexity. My Dual sport rarely sees pavement. ABS would be a waste there too. Non switchable ABS ( if there's no way to piggy back a switch in ) is a deal breaker for some folks because changing direction by sliding the rear is real thing. Sometimes it's a turning technique and once in a blue moon, it's a crash avoidance maneuver.
    I reckon folks who escaped death or grievous injury by sliding the rear are probably the most insistent about at least being able to switch it off.
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  2. RCruiser

    RCruiser Jus' Watchin'

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    Regarding the Front Brake: Post #13552 Hondapaul stated:

    Hi All - Update on the 12mm KTM front master Cylinder.
    All fully bled now (original 2 year old fluid a bit dark - replaced with Ate "TYP 200" as never use anything else, even if the spec is a bit overkill on a Himmi) and a few hundred miles with it makes me think "this is a good mod".

    The action itself is no longer wodden but much more reactive to braking pressure.
    There is a slightly more lever travel, in a good way that gives a more progressive braking action, and much more feedback.
    Did not cost much from my local breaker ( as small generic "bybre" ktm unit) and a simple swap over as the M/C is at the high point of the system.
    Hopefully... no more new trousers moments when the next "where did you come from" happens...


    That might be one way to approach this issue.

    Also I seemed to have read somewhere that the 2020 models have reworked the front brake somehow? On my short test ride they seemed much improved over the 2016 bikes that I'd previously ridden, but I cannot say anything conclusive as I had too many other 'sensors' working in my head to have evaluated any one thing well. However if this issue was corrected buying direct replacement parts would be an easy/inexpensive? fix. I hope to have my bike show up in the next week or two and will certainly let you know what I feel about the front brakes and I will try to dig into the subject here and see if I can substantiate wether RE has addressed this problem...
    Robert
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  3. Randy

    Randy Long timer

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    Well, as mine is a 2020, if they've improved it I'd sure hate to ride the previous versions....

    I was thinking I remembered reading that it was a KTM caliper from one of their newer, lower budget smaller bikes that also used ByBre equipment, that was an improvement. But, now that you've reposted the above, perhaps that's what I remembered reading... Not sure... :dunno

    I'm old and often get confused... :lol3
  4. BurnieM

    BurnieM Long timer

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    I think we are not so much talking about an in-effective caliper but instead a mismatch between the master cylinder and the caliper.

    My 2020 BS4/Euro4 has a less than stellar front brake.
    I believe the talk about improved front was in regard to marketing statements on the Indian BS6. Yet to see a true braking test on a BS6.
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  5. RCruiser

    RCruiser Jus' Watchin'

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    Randy the way Enfield designates/sells bikes in various markets seems dubious at best. What I'm getting at is your 2020 bike; if it has Switchable ABS & a Hazard Light Switch, if the CAT (or former CAT? I think you went full Delkevic?) was up near the cylinder head vs near the peg, these then are what then would substantiate it truly being what they're calling BS6/2020 bikes in India. When I say dubious it is because they were still selling Carb'd bikes in OZ long after other markets had FI, as well as other notable discrepancies, while labelling them as current year models.

    Here's what I've uncovered so far, and is a quote from a March 2020 article in AutoCar, an Indian rag:

    "The manufacturer also seems to have listened closely to what customers had to say because the other updates on the BS6 Himalayan addresses the issues of the BS4-spec bike. Of these, the most substantial is the improved braking performance; Royal Enfield hasn’t told us what exactly has been changed, apart from the recalibration of the ABS, but the refinement is noticeable. Off-road enthusiasts will also appreciate the fact that the ABS can now be switched off on the rear wheel, allowing all the sliding action that was denied on the older bike..."

    So, maybe they have done something? Checking the related Part #'s might reveal something, or not, but I suspect that this all will come to light as time moves forward.
    Robert
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  6. Beemerboff

    Beemerboff Long timer

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    As has already been stated the front brake caliper is pretty close to the acceptable Aprilla / BMWF650 brake, 30mm dia pistons, and it is probably similar to other Brembos which take the 181 pads, fitted to KTMs etc.

    Brembo cast the size into the base of the MC , 13 mm on the F650, and that works fine with the 19" wheel on these bikes.

    Need someone with better sight and a more flexible neck than me to read what is on the bottom of the Hima MC. But probably 13 mm.
    12 mm is probably going to be as small as you will find in a long lever set up, my local brake guy sleeves the BMW ones down to 11 mm and sources the seals etc from a Guzzi dealer'

    Leverage on the Hima lever is around 7 to 1 compared with nearer 5 to 1 on the F650 so that should more than cover the difference from a 19" to a 21 " front wheel.

    So, why do some folk feel the power is down - perhaps the disk material or size?

    FWIW bike mag claimed some radial MCs had a leverage ratio adjustable between 17 to one and 19 to one, which would more than double the force on the pads, if you could find a 13mm one.
    But they are designed to be used on bikes with at least 16 32mm caliper pistons, not two sliding 30 mm ones, so usually only come in larger sizes ----!
  7. BurnieM

    BurnieM Long timer

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    This was raised a few months back.
    The issue was (still is?) that the BS6 parts list does not seem to be available even to Indian dealers.
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  8. Eatmore Mudd

    Eatmore Mudd Mischief on wheels.

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    Do you know the rotor diameters of the Aprilla / BMWF650 , KTM that take the 181 pads ? If a 13 mm piston is the right answer for 19 inch wheels and rotors of the same size as the Himma, a 12 mm MC piston just might be the awesome sauce to overcome the extra rotational leverage of our 21 inch front.
  9. BurnieM

    BurnieM Long timer

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    13 inside a double circle on mine.
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  10. Hondapaul

    Hondapaul Adventurer

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    Hi all
    I, like many, found that the front brake was wooden and leaking power.
    There was no size stamped/cast on my master cylinder so cannot say what size my original was but have changed m/c's on a few bikes so hit my local breaker..
    I have both 12 and 13 mm m/cylinders of KTM's and fitted the 12 first... A few thousand miles on it now and I see no need to try the 13 (have thought about a semi radial unit) as with EBC HH pads the braking is progressive and more than enough for the Himalayan without being over braked on the dirt.
    The set up works for me, and I hope for others if they try it.
    Will be interesting to see how a different brand disc works when the original needs replacing
    Stay healthy guys
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  11. Eatmore Mudd

    Eatmore Mudd Mischief on wheels.

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    My factory service manual list the wear limits of the MC piston bore at 12.76 mm and the caliper piston bores as 25.46 mm. Front disk is 300 mm.

    Anyone have the specs for KTM's ?
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  12. Eatmore Mudd

    Eatmore Mudd Mischief on wheels.

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    Interesting find man, thanks for sharing.

    FWIW when ordering adjustable levers for mine I had to order a lever set for Ninja 250/300 etc. to get the clutch lever and a lever set for KTM Duke 390 etc. to get the brake lever.
  13. sqeeezy

    sqeeezy Been here awhile

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    at the risk of boring y'all repeating myself, just in case nobody's heard of the amazing improvement that sintered pads can give you..(ok, your disk won't last so long, so what, neither will you without stopping power)....try EBC FA181HH Replacement Brake Pads for Front Royal Enfield Himalayan! I have no financial connection with EBC.
    Eatmore Mudd likes this.
  14. Beemerboff

    Beemerboff Long timer

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    I have run EBC HH pads on my R80 G/S for the last 230,000 km and the disk is still (just!) over the minimum thickness, so wear probably depends on the disk material as well as the pads.
    And use, of course, a lot of there KMs were on dirt roads and tracks where the brakes get as much use as they do on a circle dirt track bike.
    ( Joke , circle track bikes don't have brakes! )
    Most disks these days are made from 420 grade stainless and it does not seem to wear as fast as some of the stuff which was around a few years back when the fast wear tales started.
    Doesnt work well over 550 degrees C so if your pads glow red you probably need something better---!

    Only test I have seen of brake pads, in Roadracing World, claimed that on the day EBC HH siintered pads worked 25/30% better than organics, but most sintered pads do much the same, and there are a few alternatives, including Brembos' own pads.
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  15. Randy

    Randy Long timer

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    I put a set of EBC HH pads on my Himalayan shortly after getting it. I think they may have been an improvement. Of course, it's also possible that it was entirely placebo effect because I was looking for an improvement. Without swapping the originals back in and doing a back to back test, I can't really confirm whether or not I feel them worthwhile. Either way, they were definitely not the panacea to solve the Himalayan's front brake issues for me...
    Eatmore Mudd likes this.
  16. jerry46

    jerry46 n00b

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    I had the fitst Himmi service at 1000km
    1000 km first service in the Netherlands.
  17. sam2019

    sam2019 Been here awhile

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    I was reviewing the 36.000km bike review of Itchy Boots, the often quoted go-to referee of this bike and one of the very few points she did not like where the brakes. However, she also managed to use one set of pads (and she did not mention which ones) for 24.000km if I recall correctly - which amazes me to no end. The OEM pads before the upgrade to the 650 system lasted maybe 5000km with me.

    Meanwhile I have upgraded all of my bikes at least at the front with a modified 650cc system as described here:

    https://himalayan-tools.com/braking-bad-adding-force-to-the-front/
  18. Hondapaul

    Hondapaul Adventurer

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    Hi All
    Working on a campsite in France (Motovances en France) for a couple of months.
    The Himmi did not like the autoroute speeds and was much happier whan I turned off onto the back roads for the last 170 miles but I made the whole 650 mile journey with no problems.
    I have been exploring some of the local, very twisty, back roads in the area... lots of leaves, farmers debris and sand wash across some of the corners but the Michelin Anakee Adventure tires just ride over/through it like nothings there... Really, really, lovin' these tyres.
    Need more ground clearance though as I am scraping pegs and center stand... both sides...
    Been down a few trackway to, no mud or deep sand, and there stable and predictable which is more than can be said about the previous Sirac's...
    Keep it rolling side down..
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  19. Doctor T

    Doctor T Gruppy old git

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    I must be the only person that likes the front brake. On-road it's fine and stops me quite quickly if needed. Off-road its perfect. You wouldn't want a grabby front brake in the dirt. My son owns a KTM 1290 adventure, his front brakes scares me. OK their brilliant on-road but once off-road you don't need that power. They are just too sharp. That may be only me on his bike but seeing he has travelled the whole European TET, so i suppose i would get used to them. My son prefers the Himmie's front brake for off-road work. The Himmie's rear brake is on another level, it is way too sharp with no feel at all. When the rear pads need changing i will be fitting a softer grade. I find it either on or off no middle ground.
    I still say the biggest problem is the calliper/ master cylinder ratio. Fitting a different size M/cylinder is where i would first look after the pads. If i had the technical details etc i could work out what size would work best. When this virus has died down a bit more am thinking of buying a few different sized remote M/C. Their only £14.00 each and once I've found the correct size i will buy a known branded one. Simple job, just lots of bleeding. Does anyone know the M/C piston borehole so i can work from that starting point.
  20. CaptainTrips

    CaptainTrips Been here awhile

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    I don't have any issues with the OEM brakes either, at this point. On my last day out, I followed a city bus around a corner and merging into traffic. I was shoulder checking to merge in and when looked ahead to see that the bus was unexpectedly braking hard in front of me. Grabbed a handful of front brake and felt ABS come on at the rear. And I avoided piling into the back of the bus. Under the circumstances, the Hima braked as well as any other bike that I have owned.
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