Royal Enfield Himalayan Owners Thread

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Anthiron, Sep 2, 2017.

  1. Randy

    Randy Long timer

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    I'm not sure I understand... Been working on bikes and adjusting valves, setting up cams, etc, for a long time, and there is nowhere near 270 degrees of cam movement where no movement of the followers take place. The cam lobes aren't an "all or nothing" proposition. It varies, but all cams have a ramp up and ramp down from full lift to no lift. At any point in this transition area of the ramps, the follower to stem measurement will be affected. We're measuring in thousandths of an inch after all. Small portions of the ramp to either side of center can affect this measurement. TDCC is the place where both valves are in the fully closed position, AND the followers are at their freest, and where you'll get the valve lash measurement that you're after. Depending on the cam duration, overlap, etc, there are a few degrees either side of this where it isn't critical. With the Himalayan it isn't "spot on" critical, but it's still advisable to be decently close to TDC on the compression stroke. And it's nothing close to 270 degrees of freedom, in my experience.

    Perhaps I misunderstood the statement... :dunno

    But, to answer the earlier question, yes, it does matter which TDC you choose. The piston comes to TDC twice for each cam rotation. At TDCE one or both of the valves will be open to some extent, depending on cam timing. Or at the very least, the followers will not be at their most "relaxed" position, which is where you want them in order to get an accurate valve lash measurement.

    The above is speaking of a valve train that uses rockers, but the same principle also applies to shim under bucket, direct valve actuation valve trains. The piston needs to be at, or fairly close to TDCC. Get it there and cam timing is pretty much irrelevant.
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  2. radare

    radare One part at a time

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    I just threw a number out there for illustrative purposes. When the rocker follows the cam profile, there is a duration of that profile that causes the rocker to move radially outward on the cam and subsequently pushing down on the valve. This is cam duration. There are lots of degrees of rotation of the camshaft where the rocker rides along the base diameter with no actuation of the rocker. Anywhere along that path, where you are outside of the cam's duration, you can set the valve lash. Plain and simple.

    With both tappet covers removed, you can see both rocker arms. You can roll the engine around and watch the exhaust valve open and close, closely followed by the intake valve. Do this for a few rotations and its quite easy to see when the rocker is being pushed upward by the cam lobe. When the rocker isn't being pushed upward, set the lash. Again, plain and simple. All setting the engine to TDC does for you is "guarantee" that you are outside of the cam lobe's duration. But like I was trying to illustrate, there are lots of degrees of the cam's rotation where you are outside of the cam lobe's duration. There isn't just one location where this can be done and by making it overly complicated, you end up with a lot of posts about people concerned with the whole TDC thing. It doesn't matter, if you are at TDC as long as you are outside the duration. Really.

    The whole point of setting valve lash is to provide enough clearance when cold, to prevent the valve from being held open after all the parts have expanded due to heat.

    I don't know what shim-under-bucket cam followers have to do with any of this as the Hima doesn't use them.
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  3. radare

    radare One part at a time

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    And it occurs to me, right now, that there is a caveat:

    You need it at TDC if you want to set the lash on both the intake and exhaust valves at the SAME time. The way I'm referring to, you set the exhaust, rotate the engine a few times to confirm, then set the intake, and you rotate the engine in between, so that you are only setting the lash for one rocker at a time. That's a very important point to clarify.
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  4. Kiwi59

    Kiwi59 Been here awhile Supporter

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    Hi Randy,
    We have a new dealer where live, another dealer 240 miles away and another about 150. they are moving few REs in all models. Really passinate about bikes and love the simplicity. I seen a couple out and about. I must admit if I did not own one would not be looking. Test rode friends wife one ( they have his and hers) came back with a huge smile and bought one.
    Would be interesting to find out the numbers sold by country?
  5. Beemerboff

    Beemerboff Long timer

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    Again you are not quite right , as Randy said the cams are ramped, so you could be part way on the ramp and still have some clearance.
    And some cam clearance is a wear allowance, probably more than the expansion allowance.
    If you had no wear allowance the valves would need adjusting immediately there was any wear, but you dont.
    BSA clearances changed little with temp, as BSA owned Jessops Steels who made specialty steels and they could select products with compatible expansion rates, but they still needed similar clearances to other bikes, back in the dino days.
    With modern oils I have found that clearances rarely need adjusting , my VFR went 120,000 km without needing the shims touched, and my push rod BMW's a similar distance.Checked by ear, of course.
    My Hima should have had them done when the PO had the dealer do the 5000 km service, at 31000 I can still hear them ticking away nicely so I haven't opened the motor up yet.
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  6. Kiwiscoot

    Kiwiscoot Been here awhile

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    Best to do the valve clearances with sparkplug out. Pretty simple to know if you are on the right TDC. Just grab each adjuster with your hand and see if it is loose, just rattle them. You are not on the right TDC if one adjuster will not rattle. I do not see any complications with getting it on the right TDC. Easy as.
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  7. HaveACuppaTea

    HaveACuppaTea Adventurer

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    If it's set right. If you don't have clearance it could be because the clearance isn't in tolerance even at TDCC! That's why there is a proper procedure to set the valve clearance at TDCC.

    And this conversation is a perfect example of why you shouldn't take advice from the internet without doing your due diligence!
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  8. Randy

    Randy Long timer

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    I agree. I've used the "wiggle" technique many times. But, depending on how tight the endshake of the rockers are, sometimes it can be sort of difficult to "feel" the movement even when it's there due to the very slight movement involved.

    But, there are only two TDC positions. One will be correct. And on the other, the intake rocker will be as tight as Dick's hat band. Just watch the intake rocker as you turn the engine over. When you see the intake valve begin to close, look through the view port in the side cover and wait for the TDC mark to come up. Stop when the TDC mark on the flywheel lines up with the indicator mark on the case/cover and you're there. While I have used the rear tire to turn the engine on some bikes, on others I find it easier to see everything when my head is in the position where I'm turning the crank with a wrench. Just depends on the bike and layout.

    It's really not rocket science if you consider the very simple mechanical things that are taking place in a four stroke ICE... It's SO simple that I'm sometimes amazed by how much discussion it can create... :scratch :fpalm
  9. CaptainTrips

    CaptainTrips Been here awhile

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    I'm just not used to doing this on a bike through an access port. All the other vehicles that I have ever worked on require exposing the entire valve mechanism. I am having trouble getting the engine to pause at the correct TDC so I have fashioned a wedge to put under the rear wheel. Of course the spark plug is removed.

    In the course of fiddling with various wrenches on both valves to find a tool that will clear I have loosened/tightened both adjusters. I will be taking my tappet tool over to a buddy today today to repair. Pouring rain for the past few days anyway so no rush. Will find my own technique for doing this. First time is always the hardest.
  10. benebob

    benebob Adventurer

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    Yeah Captain, it does like to skip past but it still takes a whole lot less time than even taking the tank of a Tiger to do the valves. You'll get it, start to finish once you do it once is probably about 1/2 an hour.
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  11. benebob

    benebob Adventurer

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    Anybody happen to know the size and length of the stock chain for the Himalyan so I don't need to count the links :) Spend some time cleaning and adjusting mine today only to find it is now quite tight is in a spot and quite loose everywhere else when I adjust it right for the tight spot (well as close to right as I can get as I run out of adjusting inwards on the swingarm with my 1 up sprocket. Only a little less than 7k on it. I am hoping to not replace the sprockets as they aren't cheap esp. the Hitchcock 1 up front.
  12. kitkat

    kitkat Been here awhile

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    I spotted my first fellow Himalayan owner yesterday! I was in my car, not on the bike otherwise I'd have done a 180.

    Was anyone from this group on the 192 (Santa Barbara) yesterday?
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  13. BurnieM

    BurnieM Long timer

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    525 x 110 links

    If you increase the teeth on the rear sprocket you probably want 112 links.
    110 should be fine with +1 on the front.

    Always a good idea to replace both sprockets and the chain at the same time.

    If you are thinking of a chain oiler then fitting it at the same time is a good idea.
    I am using an OSCO oiler.
    .
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  14. Randy

    Randy Long timer

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    Yeah, that's why I recommended a solid wrench of some sort on the crank. Of course, this isn't the first bike I've dealt with that did that. In fact, as far as I can remember, they most all do that...

    And I've done quite a few through a port of some type like the Himalayan. Some are easier that others. I don't find the Himalayan's exhaust valve difficult to access, but the intake is a BITCH as there's just not a lot of room around that area in which to work.

    I have a tool, but haven't tried it yet. Bought on a whim, so I'll give it a shot next tie I do the valves. But, I actually plan to make my own holder tool anyway. Or, I may just use my fingers like I've done for years. With a little experience it's not difficult to get a feel for how much the adjuster tightens up when you torque the nut down. I can usually get it in two of three tries per valve just by using my fingers to hold the adjuster.

    But, as you say, you'll figure out your own method once you've tinkered with it a bit. :thumb
  15. Randy

    Randy Long timer

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    I agree with replacing things as a set. Sprocket wear will accelerate the wear on a new chain by a good bit. 7000 miles is pretty bad life for a decent o-ring chain. But if the chain is worn, then so are the sprockets and vice versa. I would assume the stock chain isn't the best of quality though. But basically, the way I view it is that sprockets with 7000 miles of wear, with a knackered chain, will almost automatically add 7000 miles to a new chain very quickly due to the extra stresses that the worn sprockets create. When the time comes I'll upgrade mine to a DID X-Ring like I use on every other chain drive bike I have... And if spending good money on a premium chain, I won't skimp by not replacing the sprockets at the same time. Can't swear to any of this so take it or what it's worth, and I'm sure some would disagree. But at the same time, I will swear to it because that's been my experience over all these years... YMMV of course...
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  16. sam2019

    sam2019 Been here awhile

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    Definitely, when I looked at the sprocket of my 60.000tkm bike the OEM chain was still ok but the teeth of the sprocket where all bent so we changed the set. It had been running in city traffic for around 30 tkm.
    sp.jpg
  17. CaptainTrips

    CaptainTrips Been here awhile

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    So, I received my Delkevic system today. Opened up the box and picked through all the pieces. I noted that I seem to have an extra gasket for the adapter, for some reason, but no gasket for the cylinder head. Instead, I got a tube of Pro Seal and no instructions. Are they expecting me to use the Pro Seal on the cylinder head? You can see the old OEM cylinder head seal in the attached photo.

    Attached Files:

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  18. Randy

    Randy Long timer

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    I would say no to your question. Mine also included two pipe to muffler gaskets and a tube of hi-temp RTV. But it also included the copper crush gasket for the exhaust port. The RTV, IMO, is included for the muffler joint and will not suffice for the exhaust port. I'd give them a jingle and let them know that you didn't receive the port gasket.

    I don't remember instructions being included, but I could be wrong... But, instructions? We don't need no stinkin' instructions!


    Seriously, I read instructions only when all else fails! :lol3 It's a pretty straightforward install, after all.

    Install everything as your intuition tells you. Put the exhaust stud nuts on finger tight ONLY first. Get everything else tightened up first. Then, fully tighten the exhaust stud nuts last.

    This was what was included with mine:

    IMG_9903.JPG

    As you can see, it was a very comprehensive "kit". The little red box contained a small tube of the hi-temp RTV. The only things I added was a little anti-seize for the O2 sensor threads, and a couple of nuts to serve as stop nuts for the muffler to head pipe T-bolt clamps. The extra "baffle" is the USFS approved spark arrestor that I purchased as an added cost accessory. And looking at the above photo, I see that it's missing the rubber muffler hanger piece, but it was included in the package.

    Oh yeah, ETA, I ended up needing the second muffler gasket. I have no idea why, but somehow I managed to lose the original one I installed. Went for a long ride, and when I returned home, I discovered the muffler was loose. I could have sworn I had clamped it securely, but somehow it managed to get loose and blow out through the exhaust. After the discovery, I remembered sort of noticing a change in sound at some point during the trip. Luckily, they had included a second one in the package. I took more care installing it by using a liberal dose of RTV on the inside and outside of the gasket, and letting it set up before tightening the clamp. This isn't really needed for the seal, but it helps to sort of "glue" the slippery gasket in place, I reckon. The second one hasn't budged, so I guess I should have done that on the first go-round.

    Word to the wise...


    .
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  19. Beemerboff

    Beemerboff Long timer

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    I would tighten the exhaust stud nuts first, so the pipe sits square to the head as it was intended too.
    Then you have to make certain the rear fixings do not require any force to align them, you want the complete system hanging loose and stress free.
    And this invariably involves modifying the rear brackets.
    Start at the back and any discrepancy is taken up at the head flange, I would rather slot / redrill the brackets than pull the flange in out of alignment.
  20. Kiwi59

    Kiwi59 Been here awhile Supporter

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    motor bikes, dont you just love them.:-)