Royal Enfield Himalayan Owners Thread

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Anthiron, Sep 2, 2017.

  1. BurnieM

    BurnieM Long timer

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    The Boosterplug definitely does not have the flexibility or abilities of a Powertronic or Power Commander.

    What it does is add 6% to the fueling of the standard map in open loop.

    While this will not solve all problems it does make a noticeable improvement to the bike, is reasonably priced and is plug and play.
    This has a lot of appeal to a lot of riders.
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  2. BillMcQuade

    BillMcQuade Slow way round

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    Whilst this may be true, the PT is also plug-and-play (if you are happy with the excellent base maps), and for the extra AUD$150, offers vastly more.
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  3. Randy

    Randy Long timer

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    Yes, as I mentioned earlier, I'm aware that the more complex devices like the PC and PT offer much more flexibility in tuning. And I know that they have advantages. I also know that the 5-6% fueling increase provided by the BP is only proper under select conditions, and may be over, or under fueling at other times. But, as I understand it, the stock ECU mapping is pretty lean. So, while the BP won't dial it in specifically "correct" the way a more advanced device will, just keeping it from being quite so lean may be all I'm looking to do.

    As my bike sits now, I'm actually happy with the way it runs for the way I use it. In fact, up until very recently, I had no plans to do anything engine related at all. And honestly, I'm still not convinced that I even want to spend the $$ to bother with the BP. Or the cam, for that matter... So, with that frame of mind, I have a difficult time justifying basically twice the expenditure to get "more" of something that I don't even feel that I need.

    The other part of this for my specific situation is that the BP is a plug and play device, with no user interface. It is what it is, and that's that, for better or for worse... For many (most) that is a limitation. And I get that. But, for me, it's not quite so. The only laptop that I "own" is actually supplied by my company. And as such, is maintained and controlled by the IT dept. I have no ability to add software outside of things I use for my business needs. So, in order for me to even be able to take advantage of the extra tunability of the PC/PT, I'd be looking at spending another $1000+ to get a decent laptop setup just so I could install the software used to interface with the controllers. When I retire, I'll obviously need to purchase a computer myself, but until then I plan to enjoy a free laptop as one of the "perks" of the job, as it does everything else that I use a computer for. This doesn't apply for most as I would assume that the majority have a personal computer, which makes playing with fuel maps a breeze. So, while the PC/PT base maps may (will) offer a better overall map than the BP, for me it would still be what it is, as I have no ability to tweak it. And as I don't really have an issue that I need to correct anyway, I'm not sure I'd realize the "better" setup over and above what advantages the BP may bring to the table for less money and complexity.

    I'm not dead set on going with, or without, either sort of device at this point. But the above is sort of what I'm looking at in the decision making process. I may change my mind at any point, so I appreciate the perspectives of everyone that's participating in the discussions of the various fueling devices. :thumb
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  4. millman84

    millman84 Been here awhile

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    The problem I see with the BP is that it works on the assumption that the fueling is too lean. That is a blanket statement that does not give you the full picture of what going on with your fueling.

    From the factory, the only part of the fueling that is truly too lean is the idle and maybe the cruising range. At idle the air velocity in the TB is low and a good part of the fuel ends up not making it to the cylinder. To compensate for this you need to run a richer mixture. The BP should help with this as long as the ECU is in open loop mode while idling I don't know if it is or not. The mixture during cruising maybe a little lean but that would be hard to do with the ECU in closed loop mode it would depend on the switch point of the O2 sensor. The BP will not do help much if at all in closed loop mode but that is ok as it probably is not needed. During acceleration the ECU should switch to open loop once again giving the BP a chance to do its thing, but the stock fueling there is most likely ok. You don't spend that much time accelerating when you look at the big picture so they can get away with running a richer mixture and the cats will take care of the extra hydrocarbons that get put out, that is why they are there after all. At WOT/ heavy loads the stock fuel mixture may be a little to rich. Again you don't spend that much time there and being a little to rich will make things run cooler and won't hurt performance that much. To make a noticeable negative impact by going to rich you need to go really rich. The 6% that the BP adds may make it feel smother and won't make it feel slower but is not doing you any good ether.

    So, the only thing that the BP will really help with is the idle. It won't make have that big of a positive or negative impact any where other than that. It will just dump more fuel into the mixture when you don't need it.
  5. Doctor T

    Doctor T Gruppy old git

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    Since placing a 2" thick piece of Memory foam on top of the standard seat fitted with a CoolCover Chinese copy. I bought it from a local upholstery shop for under £5.00GBP. In total £8.50GBP. I am now able to ride for 3 hours without stopping. It's like town 2 hands cupping my buttock cheeks. Before this, 1 to 1.5 was the max and i used to feel Like John Wayne clambering off a horse after a ride chasing the Bad guys.

    As for these BP and alike units, am happy with the performance of the engine. It is what it is and i knew that when i bought the bike. I thought coming from 125bhp dropping down to 24.5bhp at the engine would be a bad idea. But for the last year and a half that I've owned it, I've never felt disappointed. I know it can cope with riding all day at 65mph with a bit extra oomph if needed, i can off road to a certain degree and i can enjoy the backcountry lanes. When i travelled to Brittany northern France covering over 800 miles on motorways i thought that was the breaker but it surprised me how well i coped. If i needed more power i would have stuck with the Tiger 1050 but that bike just made me ride faster and to think about it, it had no character just like most Jap bikes(bhp over character) I will leave the Jap 4 to fight that out among themselves. The only reason for me to fit a unit like a BP, PC would be for if i fitted a complete aftermarket exhaust system. As this is known to make most EFI engines run leaner i would fit a unit to make sure i wasn't running too lean as to damage the engine. Fitting a unit for just more power does not interest me one bit. Like a few on here, my bike starts and runs perfectly, no stalling, holding back or any other problem others experience with their bikes.
    My Himalayan has made me appreciate lower performance bikes. I can ride to my limits and the bike still handles great. Am having more fun on the bike that I've had for years riding high powered bikes. The Himalayan has made me appreciate lowered power bikes so much that my next bike is going to be not a mega powered sports rocket but a Benelli TNT 125 which is a Grome styled bike(we don't get the 135 engine in the UK). Again this is a bargain bike only costing £2100GBP on the road. As my RE dealer also sells these i know that it serviced and set up correctly by them.
    photo-93-366.jpg
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  6. Sgt_Gatr

    Sgt_Gatr Adventurer

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    Does anyone know I’d the touratech zega pro panniers will fit on the Royal Enfield Himalayan OEM pannier rack? There is a cheap set near me.
  7. Doctor T

    Doctor T Gruppy old git

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    Most panniers will fit but you may have to adapt the mountings
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  8. rockt

    rockt Long timer

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    Pardon my ignorance but BP, using some sort of false signal to fool temp. sensor into thinking it's colder than it is, makes the ICU richen mixture (6%)? So if it relies on the temp. sensor, it must only be working in closed loop mode, no? So it will only richen the mixture at idle, maybe steady state cruising, likely right where it needs to be richer? Sorry if this has already been determined, I just started paying attention to this mixture discussion because I worry about the heat from air-cooled engines with today's overly lean fueling. And I'm just looking at it very simply, I'm not very high-tech.
  9. Randy

    Randy Long timer

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    I won't even attempt to refute anything you said there. In fact, for several years that was my assessment of the device as well for the most part. But my assessment was based on the "theoretical" aspects of what I understood about the device and it's affects.

    More recently though, several, admittedly anecdotal, accounts from users of the BP have made me begin to second guess my original conclusions.

    I realize that it won't give perfect fueling. But then again, if what people are saying about the more subtle affects that it has on rideability are true... Then perhaps it may be worth it to me to buy one and experiment myself...

    I would actually love to see some dyno results from a Himalayan with a Booster Plug. Not to see how what the HP and torque graphs look like, but to see the results of the EGA in order to see exactly what it's doing as far as the fueling goes. Many tuners use EGA equipped dynos to fine tune the fueling on the Power Commanders, and even long before that, for carb'd bikes. I would assume that it's been done with a BP too, but I haven't ever seen anything about this...

    Has anyone?? :ear


    I'm in pretty much the same boat. I have to credit my TW for being the first to teach me the virtues of smaller, less powerful bikes. And it was quickly followed by the Himalayan. Now, when I think of all the latest, greatest, big, high HP bikes, my eyes glaze over and I have to fight to suppress a yawn... The fastest bike that even interests me these days is the RE INT 650.

    I'm not considering the BP for power, as I know that's not what it'll do. My only reason for considering adding one is because I have installed a full aftermarket exhaust, and due to several anecdotal reports of "improvements" it makes in smaller areas of rideability.

    With that said, I have to admit that I am slightly intrigued by the idea of the TEC cam. Not that it's really "necessary", but just that I know that in certain circumstances the purported boost could be useful and enjoyable. Several months back, after riding my Himalayan for a while, and assessing it honestly, I came to the conclusion that, for me, it was damn near perfect. And that if it just had 5-10 more HP I could remove the "damn near" from that assessment.... So, if the TEC cam delivers what they claim, then yeah, I'm interested. If it doesn't, I won't be heartbroken though, as I find the bike very enjoyable as is.
  10. Randy

    Randy Long timer

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    This was discussed a bit earlier. The BP will not override the Lambda sensor, so will essentially do nothing in closed loop mode. But, closed loop is only in effect during steady state cruise with constant throttle position. Any change in throttle position takes the ECU back to open loop where it relies on the other sensors to refer to the base fueling maps to determine injector duration. And then, there is typically some short delay (maybe 1-2 seconds) once the throttle position returns to steady state again, before the Lambda takes over and the fueling is once again determined by closed loop operation.

    In order to utilize the fuel maps during open loop the ECU relies on the input from the oil temp sensor, IAT sensor, RPM sensor, MAP sensor, and TPS, or some combination of those signals, to calculate the proper fueling for the conditions. EFI ECU's correct for altitude and temperature all the time as a matter of course. So if you can spoof the signals from the various sensors that the ECU uses to "know" which cells in the lookup tables to refer to, you can make it add or subtract fuel. The BP affects the signal from the AIT sensor so that the ECU uses the cells in the lookup tables that correspond with the other parameters AND the "cooler more dense air" that it's being told it's operating in.

    The disadvantage in this approach is that it still relies entirely on the base map lookup tables. So at best, it can add a certain percentage of fuel as a constant, which may or may not be what the engine needs at all times. Then again, there ARE other sensors that are still doing their thing. The MAP, TPS, and RPM sensors are still reporting those conditions, so the net effect is that the ECU will select the proper cells that correlate with all of those other conditions AS WELL AS, the lower temperature air that it's being told exists. If you were actually riding in air that was some amount cooler, what would it do? Basically the same thing.... add the same amount of fuel....

    Not perfect, but likely (possibly?) close enough...

    I can't speak for all, but I know that where and how I ride, I actually spend very little time at steady state as I'm almost constantly modulating the throttle, either accelerating, decelerating, maintaining my speed up or down inclines, navigating curves, etc. If you live in an area with straight flat roads and ride at constant speeds all the time, then you spend much more time in closed loop. Around where I ride, that's very rarely the case for me.
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  11. whysub

    whysub Been here awhile

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    Today I gave my Himalayan some of the love it deserves. I've owned it for 20 months (although we were separated by 1200 miles for 10 months due to Covid travel restrictions) and have covered 6000 miles on it.

    I fitted a new battery on Monday and today fitted the sidestand I had shortened a while ago. Then it had its first wash and polish since it was new, except for the torrential rain storm it rode through in France in September 2019.

    There is not one spot of rust anywhere on the bike, all the fasteners are bright and fur free, it idles perfectly, and the compass works.

    I have been using my Street Triple (mainly on the twisty mountain roads) whilst waiting for the battery to arrive and getting the time to fit it (it is kept in an underground garage 30kms away).

    I've missed it more than I thought, it's like slipping into an old pair of shoes. Until I think I need to ride the twisties again, I'll be riding along the gravel tracks not knowing where they will lead to.

    Happy days are here again.
  12. Eatmore Mudd

    Eatmore Mudd Mischief on wheels.

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    Pierre Terblanche and Harris Performance ain't in the habit of design duds.
    Knowing that it just makes sense that the R&D test mules are the real deal full tilt boogie design and then they dumb it down on production to meet whatever requirement or expectation . This leave the performance hidden inside to be " discovered " later on by gear heads and the aftermarket.
  13. Scottyhumbucker

    Scottyhumbucker Adventurer

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    Your compass must have the new ACME DIRECTIONAL ENHANCEMENT PLUG
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  14. CaptainTrips

    CaptainTrips Been here awhile

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    I went to my local foam rubber shop, bought a 2 sq ft scrap of 2-inch memory foam for $4, and a can of spray foam rubber adhesive. I already have an air stapler and a pack of 1/4 inch stainless staples. Used my Princess Auto staple puller to loosen the seat cover -- but not completely, I left it attached at the front. I cut a block of the memory foam roughly to size and glued it to the stock foam.

    I then used a Black and Decker electric carving knife (think turkey) to remove most of the foam in slices. The object was to reshape and level the seat. I would trim a bit and then pull the cover back into position and sit on the bike for a while, then repeat until I got something that I liked. Don't worry about making it look smooth.

    Then, working a bit on either side, from front to back, I worked the stock seat cover tight and restapled it alternating from side to side until the cover was back on and tight. I am happy with the result. The cost was next to nothing.
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  15. Randy

    Randy Long timer

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    This makes sense.

    On the flip side of that same coin, from what I understand anyway, the Himalayan's original design objective was to create a new home market bike. Possibly even with the foreknowledge that the Bullet's days were numbered (?). And from what I gather from those that are more familiar with Indian culture, fuel efficiency is a BIG deal in the home market. So, this begs the question; did they design the "full tilt boogie" version that was later detuned, or was the initial design brief to design the new bike to include a specific set of parameters, including fuel efficiency? If the latter is the case, then I would think that the initial test mules were to test different variations of a fuel efficient new engine. If in fact they originally planned to build a "world" model, then I'd say it was the other way around, and they designed the "full tilt boogie" version first, then worked to increase its fuel efficiency. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

    And then, I can't help but wonder, whether before design, or as an afterthought, and if fuel efficiency rather than emissions were the reason for the "detune", once they decided to offer the Himalayan outside the home market, why didn't they change the specs on that version to include the "full tilt boogie" cam. In most every review I've seen on the bike, overwhelmingly, the single largest complaint has been about the lack of power. Seems to me that early one, the marketing people would have said, "Hey guys, if we want to sell this in the US (or other places were power trumps mpg) we need to pop that original cam profile back in the bikes being shipped there..."
  16. Randy

    Randy Long timer

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    If I had a spare seat, and if my displeasure with the stock seat were strong enough, I might be inclined to experiment with reshaping it. But, since I'm not willing to sacrifice the low seat height, I'm not sure I could really accomplish much. I suppose I could use your technique to widen the rear portion and create more of a dished shape. I remember, years ago, finding a website where a guy had a very good write-up of building a custom seat. He spec'd it all out on his page, but I forget all of the specifics now. But he used several different types of foam, of differing densities, laminated together with some sort of spray adhesive. He even explain the how's and whys of the densities he used in different areas. Then he used an electric carving knife to cut to rough shape (as you did), then an angle grinder with a abrasive disc to do the final contouring and shaping. I think I remember him even saying that the sanding disc worked better if you put the seat in the freezer for a while first, as the cold foam was more rigid and sanded better. I've always sort of wanted to try my hand at it using his techniques, but I've just never really had an occasion in which it was necessary enough to go to the trouble...

    I've also seen a video where one of the professional seat builders demonstrated his methods, and it was done in a similar fashion.

    If one wants to devote the time, I have no doubt that this would be the best way to end up with a seat custom tailored to one's own ass. It may take several attempts, but it would probably yield the best results overall because you could tweak, ride, tweak, ride, tweak, as much as possible until it was just right. Even the best of the custom seats available will be what they are. So you may get lucky and it'll be perfect. Or, not...
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  17. CaptainTrips

    CaptainTrips Been here awhile

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    If you are not cutting away at the OEM seat foam, you are not really going to wreck the OEM seat. You can just remove what you have added and start again. The spray adhesive does not attack the foam and cures in a few minutes, so it is easy to work with. 3M makes some. I got mine at the foam shop. My seat is not really any taller, just flatter in the middle.
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  18. whysub

    whysub Been here awhile

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    Are these the reviews of the owners, or reviews of the motorcycle press? I am positive that the vast majority of owners were aware not only of the power output when they purchased their bike, but also that extracting any more power is difficult and not really worth the effort or expense.

    The motorcycle press seem to have a downer on the bike because it has "so little power" and, despite it being a massive sales success here in the UK, it never made MCN's top ten ADV bikes. The Honda CB500X did though.

    I am sure that press reviews do put prospective buyers off, and they do not really reflect the owners experiences.
  19. Randy

    Randy Long timer

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    I guess I'd say all of the above. I've seen the same remarks from a lot of different places. YouTube reviewers, people that test rode the bike, motorcycle press reviewers, almost buyers, and buyers. Hell, even myself, and I LOVE the bike! I bought it knowing what it was and what it offered, sure. And even still, quite a ways back in this very thread I remarked that if it had 5-10 more hp, it'd be damn near perfect. And I still feel that way about it. Not to say it's a deal breaker for me as I find it "adequate" as it is. But, if it had 5-10 more HP I certainly wouldn't say it was worse.

    Read back through the almost 1000 pages in this thread alone and you'll find many remarks about the lack of top end power...

    And yep, I bought it knowing this. And knowing that I wouldn't be chasing more power, and that I'd just ride the damn thing and enjoy it for what it was/is. And I've been happy as a lark doing just that, BECAUSE it does so many other things well, that I can overlook that one shortcoming.

    I'm not one of those that tries to make a bike something it's not, and spending a lot of money in the effort...

    But then, TEC bike parts dropped their bombshell about a new cam that purportedly produces a 20% increase in power without hurting the bottom end torque. IF, and that's a big IF, this is true, then sure, I may change my mind about modifying the engine.

    Ad there's no doubt that the motorcycle press has done the Himalayan no favors, and I'm sure a lot of people won't even give it a second glance due to that. That sucks actually, because, IMO, it is HANDS DOWN a better all around motorcycle than its competitors that do make more HP. But, unfortunately, most riders are more interested in spec sheets and peak numbers than the more meaningful things that make a bike be what it is... Their loss...
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  20. CaptainTrips

    CaptainTrips Been here awhile

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    That's an interesting question. I bought my Hima with 1100 miles on it, and I became the third owner of it, 6 months after it was first sold. I see others here have bought Hima's that have very low miles on them. I might suggest that low power might be a factor in people's decision to sell the bike so soon after purchase. In my case, the second owner never registered the bike. He bought it from the original owner for his wife, but she decided that it was too tall for her.
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