Servicing the LC4 chassis swingarm suspension link

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by creeper, May 17, 2005.

  1. sherpa

    sherpa ...Robert

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2002
    Oddometer:
    3,206
    Location:
    Charlottesville, Virginia
    Where's your maintenance thread Meat?....sounds entertaining...:D

    I think I'm going to turn a couple of hardwood pieces on the lathe with a shoulder equal to the width of the seal, then drill a hole through the center of them and use a piece of threaded rod and a couple of nuts to set the bearings.
    #81
  2. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14,587
    Location:
    Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
    My personal Adventure copying Odyssey - I hope you get something useful out of it, or at least some mild entertainment. Obviously this is a learning experience for me.

    One thing I learned from a lil' birdy who gave me some guidance is to only use "hardened" washers to help press the bearings. Nevertheless, I did try to use some that were not and they deformed pretty easily. Perhaps the catch is if they deform inside the housing they might seize up. Maybe a hardwood would be OK :dunno
    #82
  3. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14,587
    Location:
    Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
    Interesting,

    I have never pressed wheel bearings, or any bearings for that matter. I just thought that in this case the bearings probably just sat side-by-side inside the toob and left enough space on either side for the seals. I could be wrong of course... :lol3 As I said, this could have been checked by holding the bearings up to the outside of the housing to see if its width is designed thus, but I didn't not ponder enough at the time I reckon.
    #83
  4. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Oddometer:
    8,888
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    It's always a good idea to check, even better, take some digital pics at each stage of dissassembly.

    As for the washers, very true. This is why I suggested using a square piece of 1/8" thick steel and just drill a hole thru.

    You rarely ever need the washer to go into the bore so a square piece of steel is fine. If you need the inner socket to go very deep into the bore, just use 2 sockets back to back with a smaller diameter one on the outside . Lots of options, just need to get creative.

    Never found hardened washers but thats a great suggestion Sometimes I'd just stack 3 or 4 washers back to back but it would still deforn so I'm unsure, the 1/8" thick steel always works.
    #84
  5. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14,587
    Location:
    Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
    I took a peek - finishing the pressing currently - and it appears that there is room enough for three bearings in there... but checked the fische, only shows two. And only two came out. I am pressing them in so there is enough room for the seals to inset just a tad; maybe I'll load up the dead space with grease. :dunno

    Hardened washers are available - in the drawers with the HQ fasteners at Home Depot. I'll summarize in my maintenance thread.
    #85
  6. Nico

    Nico The Garg

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Oddometer:
    45,252
    Location:
    Romeo, MI
    Hey, Meat,

    Did you notice any issues with the shaft seal "bucket" not wanting to "stay put" after filling the dead space with grease?

    I did this last night and when replacing the buckets, they were being displaced by, what seemed to me to be, the hydraulic pressure created by the extra grease used to "fill the void" not having anywhere to go.

    I'm not worried that there is anything wrong, but I will need to get these to set in and stay in place when I put the swing arm back in. Trial and error will let me find the right amount of grease to do this.

    As an aside, I felt like one lucky sum-a-beeyatch last night. Every pivot point linked to the swing arm was nice and greasy when I dis-assembled the thing. The PO told me he had never done any of this maintenance in the 3500 miles he'd owned it, so I was a little nervous I'd be ordering bearings today. I'm doubly lucky given my Pro Lever has been very receptive to getting grease pumped into it.

    Hopefully the luck continues when I tear into the steering head later on this week.

    May the LC4 doGs continue to bless me. :bow

    Thanks again to Creeper for the write-up and to you, Meat, for keeping all this info organized and accessible. Gotta be a serious pain to stay on top of this.
    #86
  7. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14,587
    Location:
    Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
    I do not feel competent enough to answer this question well. If you are following my maintenance thread (linked above) you will have seen my latest full summary of my work on those bearings and seals.

    My installation of the seals was to the best of my ability, which isn't saying much... anyways, when I drove the old bearings and seals out I thought I had a good idea of how they were installed. But when I went to put them back in I became unsure.

    First off, I wasn't sure which way the seals went; for lack of real terminology: should the spring side be internal or the flush side? I'm not sure if it even matters, but I thought they might last a tad longer if the spring was inside and kept greased. Probably a mistake... :lol3

    Secondly, I noticed that the frame tube that holds the bearings and seals is slightly flared on either end. I guess that is to aid installation but it seemed to me that when I pressed the seals in past the flared section they were squished. Not laterally by running into the bearings (which obviously must be pressed in far enough to allow the seals to be installed) but, um, by the diameter of the housing. This made me wonder if the seals are supposed to just sit in the flared portion, but that is not how I remember the old ones looking and I wondered how they would stay put given the fact that there is lateral play in the assembly (~3mm of space so the system can self-center and avoid binding). Summary: how far in should the seals be installed?

    It helps keep me from getting bored. If I was really dedicated to it I would have followed creeper's advice from long ago and put a short blurb with each link so folks would know what gems lay within and also help with searching the index with CTRL-F. Glad I can be of use.
    #87
  8. Nico

    Nico The Garg

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Oddometer:
    45,252
    Location:
    Romeo, MI
    FWIW, the seals at all the pivot points on my bike appeared to be installed with the spring to the inside of the assembly. Again, I very fortunately do not have to replace any bearings or seals at this point. :clap (Unless the accepted practice is to replace the seals anytime the buckets are removed and the bearings are re-packed. I don't see how inspection/greasing could damage the seals, but I've been wrong innumerable times before.)

    Are you talking about the tube the dog bones attach to? IIRC, you mentioned this being a "dry" area on your bike that needed attention? The seals are flush to the tube end on mine there also.

    Keep in mind, my bike is a '97 model year and I believe there were changes to the swing arm in subsequent models. Not sure what years or if there were also changed to the link/dog bone system.
    #88
  9. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14,587
    Location:
    Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
    I got lucky. Schweet...

    There are some bearings that should not be serviced, like wheel bearings. But I think those are called "sealed bearings" and opening them up to service them damages their seals/races. I'll stop talkin' out my butt; if you follow creeper's guide I am sure he will not lead you astray.

    "flush" eh? Well, I pressed my bearings in far enough to let the seals go a bit past flush - past the flared part - perhaps that is why they seemed to compress. I'll keep an eye on them and see how they work out.
    #89
  10. braaap!

    braaap! Long timer Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,403
    Location:
    Here and There
    hey Meat! just completed replacing the bearings and seals in my 'dogbone' today. What a shit job! mine looked every bit as rustcrunchy as yours!!

    hope you've got yours back together now .

    Got my new parts from KtmWorld friday.... so today was the day. It sure pays to be creative with your extraction and insertion tooling

    lets just say when these fuckers are frozen they are a right pita to budge!
    4hrs to remove.... 1/2 hour to reinstall new parts.. BTW seals go in flush, with the ends of the cylinder housing... glad I measured beforehand :D

    don't know how one would get in there and drive them back out if they had gone in too deep :eek1

    cheers,
    #90
  11. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14,587
    Location:
    Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
    hey braaap!

    I will most likely replace them at my next inspection; I was thinking some kind of hook to pull them out would work with the shaft removed. Mine pounded out much easier than yours, maybe the overnight soak with WD-40 helped, and I made sure they would be easy again with some good assembly grease.
    #91
  12. braaap!

    braaap! Long timer Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,403
    Location:
    Here and There
    after destroying the left hand side bearing with a punch / drift and hammer... I stopped, had a coffee and thought abit (creeper would be proud)... I got a length of M10 allthread that ran thru the whole assembly and out the hole in the rhs frame.

    .... it simply pulled both bearings out to the right! Used a short length of M8 to pull the new ones back in.

    Now, how do you 'mericans say.... my rear end feels all 'sassy' :ricky




    .. whilst there is an enormous wealth of information and experience contained in here... your and others efforts in sorting the jumble is truly appreciated!

    I don't think I've said it before, but thanks heaps Meat!
    #92
  13. creeper

    creeper Still alive...

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2003
    Oddometer:
    10,718
    Location:
    Puget Sound
    :smooch
    #93
  14. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14,587
    Location:
    Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
    Thanks for saying so braaap!

    It's nice to be useful. Now if only I can be useful to myself too and finish up my maintenance/repairs... soon I'm betting.
    #94
  15. braaap!

    braaap! Long timer Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,403
    Location:
    Here and There
    mate! without pissing in your pocket... you have been single handedly instrumental in pulling the bleeping index together!

    usefull?... invaluable I'd say, for old and new innmates for years to come! It's called legacy... I think I can speak for all 640A owners... we appreciate it, thanks again!

    and big thanks to creeper.. :nod
    mack.. :cry
    dagwood..
    loaded...
    neduro...
    happe..



    an all you other thumperfuckers et al...

    Oh! except Chris C... yeah... except ole dust fart! :D


    :freaky
    #95
  16. nfranco

    nfranco over macho grande?

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,047
    Location:
    la ca
    In all the parts diagrams the hex on part #52 is pointing to the left side of the bike but I've noticed on my and others bikes it on the right side.
    Does it really matter? I can't see any interference issues either way.
    Is there a double secret reason that I don't know about?
    As always, thank you Creeper and Meat.
    nick
    #96
  17. creeper

    creeper Still alive...

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2003
    Oddometer:
    10,718
    Location:
    Puget Sound
    I believe the last time I did mine, the hex was to the right. It don't think it really matters. The hex is there because it's handy as hell for removing the nut that doesn't break loose on disassembly... and for using the shaft to install new bearings and seals.

    C
    #97
  18. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,794
    Location:
    THE exact center of California/Bass lake/Yosemite
    Quote:
    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">
    [​IMG]


    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    In all the parts diagrams the hex on part #52 is pointing to the left side of the bike but I've noticed on my and others bikes it on the right side.
    Does it really matter? I can't see any interference issues either way.
    Is there a double secret reason that I don't know about?
    As always, thank you Creeper and Meat.
    nick
    Quote

    I am installing 50-54 and have the bearings in but the BUSHING BOLT CONNECTING BAR'96 doesnt not want to go in. Is this a press fit cause the sucker is tight and I was using a drift and socket but it didnt seem right and pushed it back out .


    So If you have any answers out there on this let us know??


    Addendum... its a muscle job got it in by using a big washer on the small 8mm end and the 18mm on the same side and pulled it through but in my "hammered state at the beginning I crushed the end of the threads and might have to pull it out and rethread.


    so the 8mm on the left helps in pulling it through after pushing the first couple of inches by driving it in by hammer but screw the nut on and save the threads.
    #98
  19. raigo

    raigo Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Oddometer:
    22
    Location:
    Estonia
    Hi!

    I have a question, today when i was adjusting the chain, i noticed that the swingarm has a small play in it. When i pull the swingarm i can feel a maybe 2 mm play. But there is no play when i try to move it side to side, is it normal? I felt that the play is comes from upper and lower shock mount
    #99
  20. gunnerbuck

    gunnerbuck Island Hopper

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Oddometer:
    6,637
    Location:
    N.V.I, B.C.
    A small amount of play is normal but if it has a clunky feel I would look at the bearings, especially the front link to frame joint....