Servicing the LC4 chassis swingarm suspension link

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by creeper, May 17, 2005.

  1. Loadedagain

    Loadedagain making chips

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    like gunnerbuck said. pump a bunch of grease in. does the play go away?
  2. raigo

    raigo Adventurer

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    I will try it tomorrow. Although i pumped some grease in it a month ago. But lately i find myself in these place very often, i think i should add grease more often.
    [​IMG]
  3. gunnerbuck

    gunnerbuck Island Hopper

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    With you riding in a lot of water I would recommend that you pull the linkages apart and regrease the needles quite often.... I do mine once a year and still had to replace the front bearing after 4 seasons... I too ride in a lot of wet conditions...
  4. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    ever thought about buying a boat?
  5. raigo

    raigo Adventurer

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    this is far more exciting :evil
  6. DaBit

    DaBit Been here awhile

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    Hi,

    I'm a lurker for quite some time already, but I finally do have a question which is not answered by strolling through the LC4 Index Thread :D

    I bought a nice prescarred secondhand 2003 LC4 Adventure which I am preparing for a trip to Morocco at the end of April. Currently I am checking and servicing components like the front forks, steering head bearings, and also the link system.

    Most bearings are fine, but some are not. The Pro-link bearing, for example, is totally shot, as are the seals. Several millimeters of play, both axially and laterally. And the bushings (number 8 on the diagram in the first post) are completely stuck. I took a hammer and a punch, upgraded to a bigger hammer, but not the slightest sign of coming loose. Applying liberal amounts of IMAL (penetrating oil) did not help either.

    Is it possible to drive the bearing+bushings+eventually the seals out at once using a bit of heat and the 'use a suitable socket+hardware+hammer'-method?
  7. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    It's possible but if I were you I'd press them out. It's easy to construct a press out of the socket you mention, a length of threaded rod, a piece of HD plastic plumbing pipe (who's ID > OD of prolink), a couple of HD washers and nuts. Also you'll need something similar to get the new bearing in, remembering to line up the bearing hole with the zerk fitting.
  8. DaBit

    DaBit Been here awhile

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    OK, that's good advice. So I used a long liberally greased M8 8.8 bolt, a socket, a piece of steel pipe, a few washers, a nut, and a heat gun.

    But unfortunately it didn't work out. In the end I thought 'is the bolt going to break, will the threads strip, or will the steel pipe bury itself permanently in the links' aluminium?'.

    So I reverted to the hammer. A lot of small blows often do better work than a constant force when things are really stuck. That's why impact wrenches work so well, I suppose.

    And indeed, it took a lot of hammering, but I finally managed to remove the bearing.

    However, I suppose that the bolt-trick will work just fine to get the new bearing in.


    A few uninteresting pictures:

    Most bearings look like this
    [​IMG]

    finally, the bearing is out of the bore. With only a few minor scars and burrs which are easily cleaned up
    [​IMG]

    The ProLink bearing itself. Completely shot.
    [​IMG]
  9. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    The "plastic" part of my earlier suggestion was not by accident :D

    I worried hammer blows might crack the housing. Probably over cautious. Glad you got it out. I'd avoid a hammer on the new one.
  10. laramie LC4

    laramie LC4 flying something...

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    any one know where to get a kit to rebuild the linkage? i've been looking but haven't seen anything. i'm going to be rebuilding/springing/valving my suspension and figure its about time to do these as well.

    thanks,

    laramie :beer
  11. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

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    I actually just bought the whole link as after buying shipping and installing the bearings seemed to equal a new shiny one.. but now Im building a back up ebay/ktmtalk/advrider sxc parts bike and will be watching your progress if you choose to go the rebuild way...

    btw the frame bearing on mine was the worst and the only bad one on the link was the center bearing , Also I am going to talk to rob at synergy to see if we can come up with a urethane bushing answer that has been done on the smaller bikes..
  12. DaBit

    DaBit Been here awhile

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    I know, but a piece of thick-walled steel pipe was available, and I am just too lazy to make a trip to the hardware store then :D

    I was not worried about cracking the housing. That link contains a lot of metal, and we are talking about a lot of small blows with a ~1lbs hammer, not a single whack with a sledgehammer.

    I was more worried about not squarely driving the bearing out and damaging the bore. That happened indeed, but the damage was minimal and easily fixed.

    I sure will. A new nice and shiny bearing should also move smoother than that rusty and crumpled piece of metal that came out.

    Next job is getting the sprocket carrier bearing out. Another expensive bearing. The KTM parts seller will be very happy when my order arrives. :bluduh
  13. Hipster

    Hipster Long timer

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    There are linkage rebuild kits on ebay.

  14. laramie LC4

    laramie LC4 flying something...

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    i saw lots of swing arm kits but no linkage. i will look again but if you have a link tot one that would be appreciated.

    thanks,

    laramie :beer
  15. clintnz

    clintnz Trans-Global Chook Chaser

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    All the wheel bearings on the LC4 are readily available from SKF for much cheaper than KTM. Being a double row bearing that sprocket carrier one is still relatively pricey though.

    Cheers
    Clint
  16. Tseta

    Tseta Lost

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    In this thread there is a thorough discussion about the rear sprocket carrier bearing (especially pages 4-6).

    To not go too far from the topic, I think I may have found a source for a "complete" linkage arm rebuild kit. I'll update once I do some more 'fiche research.

    Cheers,

    Tseta
  17. Tseta

    Tseta Lost

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    Ok, so now I've done some additional fiche research. Check this out. From the elitktm.com fiche, looking at a 1997 KTM 360 EXC M/Ö (???), and the linkage arm at the chassis components, we can find (at least) the following parts:

    Navigation: Main Catalog [​IMG] 1997 [​IMG] 360 EXC M/Ö 13lt (CHASSIS)
    <hr> Component: LINKING 250/300/360 `95
    Manual: 757573, Page Number: C95546044_757573 Step 4 - Select Part

    <table border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="300"><tbody><tr><td align="center" bgcolor="white" width="20">2 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="80"> 54603097000 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="150"> NEEDLE BUSH HK 2016 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="white" width="50"> $14.95 </td> </tr> <!-- check for superceeded part numbers --> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="white" width="20"> 3 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="80"> 54603081000 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="150"> BUSHING SLEEVE 15 X 20 X 48 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="white" width="50"> $27.38 </td> </tr> <!-- check for superceeded part numbers --> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="white" width="20"> 4 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="80"> 54603090010 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="150"> STEEL WASHER 15,2X19X0,1 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="white" width="50"> $2.29 </td> </tr> <!-- check for superceeded part numbers --> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="white" width="20"> 4 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="80"> 54603090020 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="150"> STEEL WASHER 15,2X19X0,2 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="white" width="50"> $1.71 </td> </tr> <!-- check for superceeded part numbers --> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="white" width="20"> 4 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="80"> 54603090030 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="150"> STEEL WASHER 15,2X19X0,3 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="white" width="50"> $0.87 </td> </tr> <!-- check for superceeded part numbers --> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="white" width="20"> 5 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="80"> 0760253270 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="150"> SHAFT SEAL RING 25X32X7 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="white" width="50"> $5.80 </td> </tr> <!-- check for superceeded part numbers --> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="white" width="20"> 6 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="80"> 58303090000 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="150"> SPAC.F.SHAFT SEALRING 15X25X11 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="white" width="50"> $7.29 </td> </tr> <!-- check for superceeded part numbers --> </tbody></table>

    Now, if we compare these parts to the linkage arm of a 2003 640 LC4 Adventure, we find the following parts:

    Navigation: Main Catalog [​IMG] 2003 [​IMG] 640 LC4 ADVENTURE (CHASSIS)
    <hr> Component: PRO LEVER LINKING
    Manual: 977531, Page Number: C03583040_977531 Step 4 - Select Part

    <table border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="300"><tbody><tr><td align="center" bgcolor="white" width="20">2 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="80"> 54603097000 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="150"> NEEDLE BUSH HK 2016 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="white" width="50"> $14.95 </td> </tr> <!-- check for superceeded part numbers --> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="white" width="20"> 3 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="80"> 54603081000 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="150"> BUSHING SLEEVE 15 X 20 X 48 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="white" width="50"> $27.38 </td> </tr> <!-- check for superceeded part numbers --> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="white" width="20"> 4 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="80"> 54603090010 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="150"> STEEL WASHER 15,2X19X0,1 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="white" width="50"> $2.29 </td> </tr> <!-- check for superceeded part numbers --> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="white" width="20"> 4 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="80"> 54603090020 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="150"> STEEL WASHER 15,2X19X0,2 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="white" width="50"> $1.71 </td> </tr> <!-- check for superceeded part numbers --> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="white" width="20"> 4 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="80"> 54603090030 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="150"> STEEL WASHER 15,2X19X0,3 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="white" width="50"> $0.87 </td> </tr> <!-- check for superceeded part numbers --> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="white" width="20"> 5 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="80"> 0760253270 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="150"> SHAFT SEAL RING 25X32X7 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="white" width="50"> $5.80 </td> </tr> <!-- check for superceeded part numbers --> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="white" width="20"> 6 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="80"> 58303090000 </td> <td align="left" bgcolor="white" width="150"> SPAC.F.SHAFT SEALRING 15X25X11 </td> <td align="right" bgcolor="white" width="50"> $7.29 </td></tr></tbody></table>
    The part numbers (these would be most of the wearing parts, bearings, bushings, seals and such), and especially, the descriptions seem to be identical, even though the actual whole linkage pivot assembly is listed as 54603080144 ROCKER ARM CPL 250/300 '94 for the '97 360 and as 58303080244 ROCKER ARM CPL. FORGED LC4 '99 for the '03 640.

    Now, why would someone go through the trouble of figuring out that a '97 360 used the same linkage pivot bearings as our 640's? Well, I found that a company called Pro-X makes various rebuild kits for KTM's. In this technical catalog they list a swing arm linkage rebuild kit for (among many others, but not for our 640's) a '97 360 EXC.

    So, based on some simple fiche research, it seems that the Pro-X linkage bearing rebuild kit (part nr. 26.110130, which seems to be the same for ALL the linkage rebuild kits they even list for KTM's...) will contain the necessary parts for rebuilding the linkage.

    Now then, the actual content of the kit is a bit of a mystery, but a Finnish importer/distributor of these Pro-X products mentions in their catalog that these types of linkage bearing kits contain all required parts EXCEPT the pro-link/shock absorber bottom bearings. However, I think I have found a way around that issue as well (it will only require some additional 'fiche research).

    Unfortunately, it seems that Pro-X products are not very widely distributed in the USA. Here in Finland the rebuild kit is listed at 83 Euros. The necessary parts, bought separately from KTM, cost about 150 USD.

    <table bgcolor="#000000" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" width="500"><tbody><tr><td bgcolor="#660000">[SIZE=-1]Item #[/SIZE]</td> <td bgcolor="#660000">[SIZE=-1]Description[/SIZE]</td> <td bgcolor="#660000">[SIZE=-1]Your Price[/SIZE]</td> <td bgcolor="#660000">[SIZE=-1]Quantity[/SIZE]</td> <td bgcolor="#660000">[SIZE=-1]Subtotal[/SIZE]</td> </tr> <form name="CFForm_1" action="changequants.cfm" method="POST" onsubmit="return _CF_checkCFForm_1(this)"></form> <tr> <td bgcolor="#ffff99">[SIZE=-1]54603097000[/SIZE]</td> <td bgcolor="#ffff99">[SIZE=-1]NEEDLE BUSH HK 2016[/SIZE]</td> <td align="RIGHT" bgcolor="#ffff99">[SIZE=-1] $13.46 [/SIZE]</td> <td bgcolor="#ffff99"> <input name="Quantity7723" size="3" value="4" type="text"> </td> <td align="RIGHT" bgcolor="#ffff99">[SIZE=-1] $53.84 [/SIZE]</td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#ffff99">[SIZE=-1]54603081000[/SIZE]</td> <td bgcolor="#ffff99">[SIZE=-1]BUSHING SLEEVE 15 X 20 X 48[/SIZE]</td> <td align="RIGHT" bgcolor="#ffff99">[SIZE=-1] $24.64 [/SIZE]</td> <td bgcolor="#ffff99"> <input name="Quantity7711" size="3" value="2" type="text"> </td> <td align="RIGHT" bgcolor="#ffff99">[SIZE=-1] $49.28 [/SIZE]</td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#ffff99">[SIZE=-1]0760253270[/SIZE]</td> <td bgcolor="#ffff99">[SIZE=-1]SHAFT SEAL RING 25X32X7[/SIZE]</td> <td align="RIGHT" bgcolor="#ffff99">[SIZE=-1] $5.22 [/SIZE]</td> <td bgcolor="#ffff99"> <input name="Quantity2289" size="3" value="4" type="text"> </td> <td align="RIGHT" bgcolor="#ffff99">[SIZE=-1] $20.88 [/SIZE]</td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#ffff99">[SIZE=-1]58303090000[/SIZE]</td> <td bgcolor="#ffff99">[SIZE=-1]SPAC.F.SHAFT SEALRING 15X25X11[/SIZE]</td> <td align="RIGHT" bgcolor="#ffff99">[SIZE=-1] $6.56 [/SIZE]</td> <td bgcolor="#ffff99"> <input name="Quantity11220" size="3" value="4" type="text"> </td> <td align="RIGHT" bgcolor="#ffff99">[SIZE=-1] $26.25 [/SIZE]</td> </tr> <!-- <TR> <TD COLSPAN="4" BGCOLOR="#FFff99" ALIGN="RIGHT"> Total </TD> <TD BGCOLOR="#FFff99" ALIGN="RIGHT"> $150.24 </TD> </TR> --> <tr> <td colspan="4" align="RIGHT" bgcolor="orange"> [SIZE=-1]Your Total <!-- (10% Discount) --> [/SIZE] </td> <td align="RIGHT" bgcolor="orange"> [SIZE=-1]$150.24[/SIZE] </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

    If the past is of any indication between the prices across both sides of the pond, it would still seem beneficial to at least make a few inquiries as to the availability of the Pro-X bearing kit.

    Additionally, HK-series needle bearings are standard items and can usually be ordered through industrial suppliers or various online shops. Same thing goes for the shaft seals (use the measurements provided in the part description for these). The only problem will be with sourcing the bushing sleeves and buckets through the industrial supply route.

    Cheers,

    Tseta
  18. Tseta

    Tseta Lost

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    Based on similar research, it seems that the shock absorber lower bearing (that is the prolink bearing, actually found on the linkage pivot piece) is the same as on various KTM's with a PDS shock, for example a 2003 525 SX. (This is mainly based on the same seal sizes used between the example used, and a 2003 640 LC4.) This would imply that a Pro-X part number 26.410089 would be the correct one for rebuilding the prolink bearing on our LC4's. This kit costs about 35 Euros here in Finland. Compared to 60 USD for just the bearing (not including seals and bushings?), this seems a bargain.

    The swingarm bearing kit was already discussed and it seemed readily available. The Pro-X catalog even recognizes the availability for our bikes, with the part number 26.210087.

    I guess that leaves only the shock absorber top bearing and possibly the linkage bearings that are in the actual frame of the LC4, not on the linkage pivot piece.

    Cheers,

    Tseta
  19. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

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    pro x is great for lc4's they make con rod repair, just bearings for crank, pistons/rings and fork seals... you can get it if you want here just need to know where to look...
  20. DaBit

    DaBit Been here awhile

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    In the end I just tapped the new bearing in, instead of pulling/pressing it in. I feel more comfortable doing it that way. Lightly oil the bore, heat the aluminium up to ~100C/212F or slightly above that using a paint stripper gun and some droplets of water as temperature gauge, place the bearing in the bore, and tap it in using a suitable socket as the driver and light tapping. It should not require much force.

    [​IMG]

    I noticed that the edges of the bearing race (correct word?) are not flush with the edges of the bore when the bearing is centered (lengthwise) in the bore.

    After driving the seals in (heat aluminium, place seal, take a piece of wood, and use light tapping to drive it in), packing the voids with Bel-Ray waterproof grease and pressing in the bushings:

    [​IMG]

    Link is ready:clap

    I did use threaded rod to press in the bushings :D . But I would not describe the fitting of the bushings in the bearing as 'light press fit'. More as 'regular press fit'.