Single-layer motorcycle jeans: Rokker vs Saint vs others?

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by TheLondonder, Mar 17, 2017.

  1. TheLondonder

    TheLondonder Been here awhile

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    AFAIK there are only two brands making single-layer motorcycle jeans: Rokker and Saint. By single-layer I mean that the protective material is not some kind of internal lining, which adds to the weight and the warmth of the trousers.

    Do you have any experience with these two?
    Do you know of others?


    Saint ( www.saint.cc ) make jeans with Dyneema, a material which is a UHMWPE ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-molecular-weight_polyethylene ); some of its jeans are level 1 CE-approved, whereas none of Rokker's products are. Saint's CE-approved jeans are in black only; they told me they have no plans to release a non-black version for now. To me, black jeans defy the point of the single layer, which is to have something lightweight for when it's sunny and warm, but of course it's very subjective.

    Rokker makes the Revolution jeans, with Schoeller's Dynatec fabric and c-change membrane (the Swiss Schoeller makes both):
    https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/rokker-revolution-jeans


    It is also about to launch the Rokkertech, which are made of an UHMWPE fabric, like the Saint, with no waterproof membrane:
    http://www.therokkercompany.com/rokkertech/?lang=en
    https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/rokker-rokkertech-slim-straight-jeans

    The Dynatec fabric was discussed in this forum thread: http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/rokker-original-jean-review.947154/#post-23214447
    It is not clear to me if this material is an UHMWPE, an aramid, or what.

    What I understand so far is that:
    • Aramids, like kevlar, have better thermal properties than UHMWPEs: they have a higher melting point and conduct less heat. This is important because it means you are less likely to get burns from the heat generated by the friction of your butt against the tarmac acting like cheese against a cheesegrater. Revzilla has reports of people who ruined their Saint jeans with the heat from the exhaust of their bikes.
    • UHMWPEs have better resistance to abrasion than aramids.
    • Aramids don't like direct exposure to the sunlight. Companies which don't use aramids say that aramid jeans will lose their protective properties under the sun; companies which use them say that's not true because the aramids are on the interior. What the truth is, I don't know.
    Bull-it has some charts on the properties of the various materials, but of course that's to be taken with a truckload of salt, as they make their own material which - would you have guessed it? - they claim is superior to both aramids and UHMWPEs.
    #1
  2. MX Engineer

    MX Engineer Alta Redshift MXR is the best dirt bike ever made!

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    What I want is Kevlar mesh pants that look like jeans or slacks!
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  3. Sitheach86

    Sitheach86 Long timer

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    Protection, comfort, looks. Pick 2 and it's the best you can get.
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  4. Sitheach86

    Sitheach86 Long timer

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    There was a guy that hit the back of an suv going 50 plus wearing saint jeans. He was messed up pretty bad however received zero abrasion to his legs and the pants looked pretty scuffed up and the pockets tore but they held up admirably. Biggest issue with saint is knee armor. Also the color/style if it's your thing or not too warm.
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  5. levain

    levain STILL Jim Williams Supporter

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    When I did that review way back when, I couldn't get a straight answer on Dynatec. At the time, all I could get was that it was Scholler's answer to an "abrasion resistant fabric", but it comes in different grades, "hands" and for different uses. The stuff on the Rokker jeans felt absolutely nothing like that on my old BMW Santiago jacket for example. I left thinking that "Dynatec" was a little like "Kleenex". It's just a name, and not all dynatec is created equal.
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  6. TheLondonder

    TheLondonder Been here awhile

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    @levain , do you mean the material in the BMW Santiago felt better or worse than that in the Rokker jeans?

    @Sitheach86 , Rokker offers an 'abrasion guarantee' for jeans bought from the English store motolegends: if you hole it in a crash, they'll give you a new one. http://www.motolegends.com//customer-service/the-rokker-abrasion-guarantee
    Revzilla has the story of a guy whose Rokker Revolution held up well after a crash. https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/rokker-revolution-jeans-put-to-the-test

    I have a jacket with the c-change membrane and I find it excellent - on par with GoreTex, if not better: http://advrider.com/index.php?threa...hi-pro-jacket-a-very-detailed-review.1191996/
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  7. levain

    levain STILL Jim Williams Supporter

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    This is all from memory-I no longer have either, but from what I remember, and remember thinking at the time... The dynatec in the Rokker jeans was very soft. I wouldn't call it beefy, but soft. The Dynatec on the Santiago was flexible, but rough feeling by comparison. It felt up to the task. My point is more that they didn't feel like the same material, and the vague description from Scholler backs that up. Dynatec is just a generic word they use for an abrasion resistant fabric. It's not all the same thing and shouldn't be thought of in that manner.
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  8. TheLondonder

    TheLondonder Been here awhile

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    It would be interesting to understand how similar the fabric of the new Rokkertech is to that of the Saint, which has some CE-approved models.
    They both use UHMWPE.
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  9. TheLondonder

    TheLondonder Been here awhile

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  10. justrider

    justrider Been here awhile Supporter

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    I looked for good riding jeans with Kevlar I found almost nothing. I didn`t really care about style just protection. Diamond Gusset jeans make a nice pair of riding jeans for not to much money. They are extremely comfortable very durable with outstanding quality. They are made in the USA and have big and tall sizes if anyone reading this needs a pair..
    #10
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  11. jackbyo

    jackbyo @sunnysideup_mc

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    I recently got the Saint Unbreakable in black. Made with 66% dyneema and CE rated for abraision.
    Been wearing them every day for the last month.
    They are very light, very breathable and not hot at all. The dyneema has an almost cold feeling against the skin.

    They're good enough to wear every day whether on the bike or not. No knee armour, but a pair of force limb tubes would solve that.
    #11
  12. AodhanVolk

    AodhanVolk n00b

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    I have a few pair or the Sartso Kevlar lined jeans. They come in a few different colors and styles and have pockets in the knees for CE armor. They are a little thick because of the lining but look good. I actually wore them on the airplane to Dublin and then rode around Ireland (1200GS) for 7 days in them including a few hikes around different sites.
    Last year I wore them on the airplane to Tampa and then rode the R1 I bought back to Charlotte. They do tend to bunch up behind the knee on a sport bike but I didn't have that problem on the GS.
    #12
  13. UPSHIFT-D

    UPSHIFT-D n00b

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    US Distributor for Rokker here...

    A few things;
    -The Rokker Originals are CE certified with the D30 Armor in place
    -As was previously mentioned, the reason you can not get definite test measurements on this is due to two things, liability and variability
    -A previously available test that was published at one point but I am having trouble finding now produced the following results; an off equivalent to 150 Lbs rider going down at 60 MPH will have a t-shirt last .5 seconds of slide, regular jeans will last 3 seconds of slide, Kevlar jeans will last 7 second, Dynatec will last 11-13 seconds, Leathers will last 17 seconds and although it was not included in this test, UHMWPE generally lasts 7-9 seconds depending on construction.
    -The Revolutions are 100% Schoeller Dynatec with denim threaded in
    -The Saints as mentioned above are 66% UHMWPE where as the Rokkertechs have UHMWPE at the core of every thread of the Warp and Weft making these actually more abrasion resistant while being less expensive
    -Dynema is extremely heat tolerant unlike UHMWPE, does not break down in the way Kevlar does (reasons why police generally swap out bullet proof vests every so years), is much more tolerant of washing, and is naturally water resistant.
    -Due to the above mentioned benefits, Dynema does not breath as UHMWPE

    For the record, I am a denim snob, own a number of pairs of these, wear them daily, and am very excited about the new 2017 products.

    I hope this helps but in case I missed anything or if you have any further questions, feel free to reach out. We also distribute, Rukka, Kriega, and Akrapovic.
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  14. TheLondonder

    TheLondonder Been here awhile

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    Certified or approved? I have seen them in a couple of stores in London but there was no mention of this in the tags.

    Is there only one Dynatec or are there various versions, making it hard to compare Dynatec across various products?

    I thought Dyneema was an UHMWPE? It's also mentioned by Wikipedia.

    Are the Rokkertech available in the US? I can't find them in the UK.

    Btw, I did get a pair of Rokker Revolution. They'd be perfect if they weren't waterproof! Yesterday it was 25C/77F. On the motorway I was fine, but riding below 30 mph and off the bike I was sweating like a pig: the typical "plastic bag" effect of any waterproof membrane - to date I have never noticed material differences between GoreTex, GorePro, Event, c-change, etc. In dry alpine conditions there might be a difference, but I have never noticed one in humid London. IMHO this defies the whole point of single-layer jeans, which should be to get rid of the bulk and warmth of layered jeans (bulk removed, warmth no!). On top of this, while the jeans keep me dry under the rain, water does not bead off the fabric, soaking it somewhat - less than it would soak ordinary denim, but, still.
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  15. UPSHIFT-D

    UPSHIFT-D n00b

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    On CE:
    The disconnect here unfortunately, is that Rokker, while being a tech tech forward company, likes to position themselves as a lifestyle brand so they tend to position their tech last in marketing efforts. As you will see on their product page for the Originals, they do show it being CE but, don't do much more than just including the logo. When they were here last though, they detailed "CE 2 approved"

    On Different Dynatec versions:
    My experience is limited to the Dynatec offered by Rokker so frankly, I'm not sure.

    Dyneema is UHMWPE:
    My Apologies, that was a typo. Dyneema is UHMWPE. I meant to type Dynatec which is a version of an aramid but distinctly different than Kevlar in both construction and application

    UK Inventory:
    We received a limited number about a month and a half ago but for a couple of reasons, have not been able to get them in the numbers we would have liked. We are expecting another order shortly though. I imagine the UK is experiencing a similar shortage.

    Your experience:
    I'm sorry to hear about your experience and totally appreciate your position. The Revolutions are a bit of a unique product that while novel, do have their limitations. Aside from the waterproof aspect though, it sounds like the Rokkertechs might be the right choice for you.

    Apologies for formatting. Not super familiar with medium
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  16. TheLondonder

    TheLondonder Been here awhile

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    @UPSHIFT-D , thanks!

    So, as for brethability, as far as you know, Dynatec is less breathable than UHMWPE? Would you say UHMWPE and Kevlar are comparable when it comes to breathability? I have a pair of Knox jeans lined with Spectra, which is a UHMWPE, and they seem and feel just as warm as Kevlar-lined trousers. Of course we are not talking about single-layer trousers.
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  17. TheLondonder

    TheLondonder Been here awhile

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    PS @UPSHIFT-D , how do the Rokkertech fit, compared to the Revolution? My revolution are W38 L32. Rokker's website shows sizes for the Rokkertech which only go up to 36 - there is no 38! Thanks!
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  18. UPSHIFT-D

    UPSHIFT-D n00b

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    @thelondoner

    Dynatec is definitely less breathable than UHMWPE. That was the motivating factor for the creation of the Rokkertechs. For this comparison though, there are a few variables to mind including how much of pant is actually lined with Kevlar. It can just be in the thighs and rear end or can be from top to bottom. In an otherwise apples to apples comparison of a single layer UHMWPE jean (like the Rokkertechs or Saint Unbreakable jeans) to a jean that is fully lined with Kevlar, the single layer UHMWPE would be worlds apart. It looks like the Knox jeans not only have a UHMWPE lining but have a Cordura denim outer which, likely does not lend as well to what you are prioritizing
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  19. UPSHIFT-D

    UPSHIFT-D n00b

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    The Revolutions are designed to fit like a Levis 501. The Rokkertechs come in what they call Slim Straight which is also cut like a 501 but then come in a Slim Fit too which, gets closer to a Levis 511. They do go up to a 42. What you may be seeing is more reflective of what is in stock currently than what is made available. The best overview online currently that might be of help is Revzilla's product video for them;
    #19
  20. TheLondonder

    TheLondonder Been here awhile

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    I have just noticed that Bull-it now make a single-layer version of their jeans.

    http://www.bull-it.com/jeans/oneskin-mens/oneskin-mens.html
    https://www.infinitymotorcycles.com/product/bull-it-jeans-stealth-17-straight-one-skin-black

    Bull-it’s website says it’s single layer; Infinity (a big store in London) says there’s a 60% Covec liner coverage.

    I’ll contact to companies to try to understand more.

    Also, Bull-it says it’s dark blue, Infinity says it’s black. To me, black single-layer clothing defies one of the key points of single-layer, i.e. being more comfortable in the heat (YMMV, of course).

    I discussed my understanding of the various fabrics in the first post at the top. These Bull-it jeans seem promising, if only because Covec should be less conductive (i.e. less chance of getting burned from friction when kissing the tarmac).
    #20