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Start/No start Sidestand or clutch?

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by Fishbonker, Mar 23, 2014.

  1. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Oddometer:
    74
    Location:
    West of Big River
    2009 F800GS 12K miles. I'm the second owner.

    Last summer I made a post about the motorcycle not starting in gear, side stand up, clutch lever pulled in. The transmission has to be in neutral to start. Not a bad situation until I kill it at a stop light in heavy traffic and I have to shift into neutral before it will start.

    Here is chart I made to try and clarify the situation:

    1: Clutch lever pulled in, side stand up, in gear, will not start. In neutral, will start.

    2: Clutch lever pulled in, side stand down, in gear, will not start. In neutral, will start.

    3: Clutch lever out, side stand up, in gear, will not start. In neutral will start.

    4: Clutch lever out, side stand down, in gear, will not start. In neutral will start.

    5: Motorcycle running, in neutral, side stand down, clutch lever pulled in, shift in to gear, motorcycle dies.

    6: Motorcycle running, in neutral, side stand up, side stand down, clutch lever in or out, motorcycle runs.

    I made this chart in an effort to convince myself that the side stand switch is faulty. I think #1 is the only faulty test. Are there any other tests I can do to rule in or out the side stand switch? I thought about finding the connection to the wire harness and jumping it. But I can't seem to locate the end. It must be under the plastics not just the seat.

    I looked at it last fall and I think the small end of the special bolt that holds the side stand on is broken. I can turn the nut and it feels like the bolt is turning with it. The bolt according to MAX BWM microfiche has large threads for holding on the side stand and small threads for holding on the switch. The switch does feel loose so I tried wiggling it while trying to start the motorcycle, didn't change anything.

    The cost of a new switch and bolt is about $130 so I want to be sure I'm on the right track before I order them up.

    I hope this post isn't as confusing to read as it was to make. Any ideas appreciated.

    Thanks.
    #1
  2. Reaver

    Reaver How Did I Get Here?

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    Oddly, I see what you're sayin'. :D

    Did it always do that or is it something new?

    Just picked up an '08 and changed the sidestand switch with a used one as the original was smacked. Yes, they do wiggle and that's normal. Anyway, I get the same scenario as you. It may be normal for the early early bikes (mines 01/08) but I will check it with the GS911 whenever I'm allowed to use the laptop.
    #2
  3. MCMXCIVRS

    MCMXCIVRS Long timer

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    I'd look at the clutch switch as the culprit. The two probable failures of the side stand switch would be either to not allow it to run in gear at all (most common failure mode) or always allow it to run regardless of gear position and clutch.
    #3
  4. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Adventurer

    Joined:
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    Thanks for the reply.

    It was intermittent late last summer after the 12K service, it eventually became permanent.

    I tried to get the stand off last year but couldn't get the bolt to turn. This spring I'm going to take the whole mount off so I can have a better angle at the torx head. That is if the switch is the problem.
    #4
  5. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Adventurer

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    Thanks for the reply. How do I test the clutch switch?
    #5
  6. MCMXCIVRS

    MCMXCIVRS Long timer

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    I believe it is just a simple single pole switch so you should be able to check it with an ohm meter to see if it has continuity in one position and be open in the other.
    #6
  7. Bayner

    Bayner Long timer

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    At one point I managed to adjust my clutch (with aftermarket levers) so that it was right on the toggle point of the switch when fully against the grip. It resulted in a similar situation. Once I realized what I had inadvertently done and tweaked it out just a bit more, that was the end of my troubles. But for a few days I was seriously wondering what the frack had happened.
    #7
  8. BcDano

    BcDano One Lucky Dude

    Joined:
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    Oddometer:
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    Home in the Loops (for awhile)
    I have an 09 and had the very same problem with the clutch switch. In my case though it simply needed cleaning.

    I also have a GS911 and was able to diagnose the problem using the realtime values screen.
    #8
  9. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Adventurer

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    Thank you all for the replies. The closest I can come to a clutch switch on the microfiche is a micro switch on the clutch lever assembly. Is that it?

    I did put handle bar risers on last winter but was trouble free until the 12K service. I suppose they could have tweaked it a little too much.

    I could go look, but Iowa State is playing.
    #9
  10. Reaver

    Reaver How Did I Get Here?

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    Yeah it's just a micro switch at the clutch lever. Listen for the click.

    OK so I stole the laptop and ran the GS911. The sidestand switch is actually 2 switches that have to agree before coming to a consensus. My new used switch is in a disagreement state so it defaults to "sidestand extended". You don't have to remove the whole bolt assembly, just the little nut on the inside. I'll go mess with it again........
    #10
  11. Reaver

    Reaver How Did I Get Here?

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    Yup. All is well now.

    The switch is a potentiometer so you can turn it round and round till you get bored. I "excercised" the switch till the two sides started to agree. Works fine now, we'll see how long it lasts.

    The clutch micro switch is just a make/break contact. Pull the plug off it and stick a paper clip in the socket to "fake it". I'm not sure if you make it or break it to simulate clutch pulled.
    #11
  12. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Adventurer

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    The little nut on the inside just spins. Won't tighten or loosen. How can the bolt be broken and not fall out the back? I understand the two threads (one for the stand and one for the switch) but it seems the part holding the switch on should have fallen out. Whether my problem is the side stand switch or the clutch switch I'm still gonna have to take out that bolt and replace it. Which is a lot cheaper than the switch.

    Maybe I'll just wrap some duct tape around the broken bolt and side stand switch if the clutch switch is the problem. Is there a "BMW Approved" brand of duct tape out there?
    #12
  13. Reaver

    Reaver How Did I Get Here?

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    Sounds like the nut is stripped. If you remove the large torx bolt it'll try to pull the whole switch through the little hole. :eek1 Have fun but thanks for making me check and fix mine. :D
    #13
  14. bmwroadsterca

    bmwroadsterca RadioFlyer

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    Hey Reaver are you sure that the sidestand switch is a pot? The schematic shows a switch and when I tested one it behaved like a switch albeit a strange one what with the rotation and some logic that seems to not just be make/break but a positive indication that the switch is either up or down. The GS911 will show the logic as extended, retracted and calculated with the latter being a specific combination of the former two. Thus the three wires I guess.

    mike
    #14
  15. Reaver

    Reaver How Did I Get Here?

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    Well, no. In the grand scheme of things it didn't matter to me the exact inner workings. I've used a lot of pots, linear variable displacement transformer types etc. It felt like one, there was no audible click and I didn't care to risk me bare hand unplugging it and poking it with multimeter leads to gain an in depth trivial type of knowledge. The important part to me was to realize there were two position measurement devices that needed to agree and come up with a verdict. Excercizing it restored it's function and I carried on........
    #15
  16. JRWooden

    JRWooden Homeless motorcycle vagabond ... and ... loving it

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    Bring beer!

    The schematic shows it as a SPDT switch:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SPDT-Switch.svg

    RED = common
    WHITE = UP
    BROWN = DOWN

    If you jumper red to white the BMS-K things the stand is always up

    I'm guessing it is a "wiper" style switch and when it gets gunked up could connect red to both White AND brown in which case the BMS-K would be programmed to assume stand is down because the lawyers like it better that way.

    Clean with a little Molson's and check with ohm meter :freaky
    #16
  17. Reaver

    Reaver How Did I Get Here?

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    Where's the fuzzy logic?

    Not that I have anything to prove or the desire to.......if it doesn't get warm here soon i'll be forced to sit in a room and take one apart.

    That will require Molson and his friends.
    #17
  18. Reaver

    Reaver How Did I Get Here?

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    You sure about that Woody?

    I get:

    RED/WHITE = UP (agreed)
    Brown/White = down

    White is common.



    [​IMG]
    #18
  19. JRWooden

    JRWooden Homeless motorcycle vagabond ... and ... loving it

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    From an emergency post I read a while back (help I'm stuck with broken switch) I had written down red <--> white would let the bike start...
    so at least we got that part right..................

    In the schematic from the Haynes manual it has:

    [​IMG]

    so ...................... BTFOM? :huh
    #19
  20. Reaver

    Reaver How Did I Get Here?

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    Meh.

    In the pic you see the white wire goes to the longest segment inside the switch (checked with multi). From there it either connects to one of the other 2 sides. There is a "transition" point where all 3 wires are connected. I think the 2 switch theory is just the computer saying "continuity on these two, not on thos two so my conclusion is..."
    #20