Starting Noise

Discussion in 'Dakar champion (950/990)' started by waltert, May 1, 2006.

  1. DustBowl

    DustBowl Only for the fun....

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2006
    Oddometer:
    31
    Location:
    Pretoria. South Africa
    I have a 05 Adv S and it made the same type of noise, along the lines of metal gears and its awful. There was a thread some time ago on this and it gave a replacemnt part number as well. Its the starter moter torque gear that needs upgrading. My dealer had doubts about it - i took the thread to him and he replaced it under warranty. The noise is gone now and i have 10 000 km and still going strong. My dealer says that the starter motor has a upgrade but they only replace when it breaks.
    #21
  2. LC8rider

    LC8rider Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2006
    Oddometer:
    682
    Location:
    Preston, UK
    So your avatar isn't you as a kid then?:rofl
    #22
  3. LC8rider

    LC8rider Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2006
    Oddometer:
    682
    Location:
    Preston, UK
    Yes, Yes, maybe...........:nod
    #23
  4. KTOOMER

    KTOOMER ad-vent-ure man

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Oddometer:
    533
    Location:
    ALCAN5000
    all the above...with this thown in...why do i have to wait SOOO LONG after starting to start off? If I don't,, she will die
    #24
  5. southpawCG

    southpawCG Rick on the Road

    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Oddometer:
    39
    Location:
    Redmond, WA, USA
    Hello, everyone!

    First off, what a relief to know that I am not the only one who has heard these frightening noises of grinding metal come from my spankin' new (to me), shiny 950 Adventure.
    I have an '04, and when I hit the starter, it simply spins and doesn't catch: the 'spinning' is an extremely loud, shrill, piercing squeal of metal-on-metal -- a cross between amplifier feedback, fingernails down a chalkboard, and the locked-up wheels of a braking freight train.

    Even that, however, sounds better than the three-coke-bottles-in-a-blender noise that I had gotten earlier. :huh I presume this was the dying throes of a slipping starter clutch.

    Neither noise could possibly be good: so ...starter shoppin' I will go.

    I was curious if, since so many of you have had the same problem and replaced the starter, whether you might know the part number for the '04 950 Adventure starter / starter clutch.


    I will call my shop tomorrow and post the answer here for posterity, if nobody else already knows it.

    Thank you all in advance for your awesomeness,
    -Southpaw
    #25
  6. cpmodem

    cpmodem Orange Caveman

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Oddometer:
    7,130
    Location:
    masa yee yah tee 59° 14' 9" N / 135° 26' 42" W
    There is no starter clutch on the '04's. That came later. '04's have a freewheel. The freewheel itself is not available separately. The ignition rotor and flywheel come as a unit.
    60039005100
    cheapcycleparts.com lists them for $452.17.
    More info here:
    http://www.ktm950.info/how/torque_limiter/freewheel/freewheel_replace.html

    That said, it could very well be that the bolt holding the rotor to the crankshaft has come loose and the rotor is slipping on the crankshaft. I recommend you pull off the ignition cover and check the rotor to be sure it is not slipping, before you order new parts. there was a Tech Bulletin issued on this that should have been performed, if your bike is one of the early ones that were effected. See item #12 in this TB:
    https://cpmodem.smugmug.com/gallery/2439675_RKJzR#70503181_4FL8R

    Also of possible relevance is this TB on the freewheel bolts themselves:
    https://cpmodem.smugmug.com/gallery/2439722_nemt7#70503211_4WRXr
    #26
  7. southpawCG

    southpawCG Rick on the Road

    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Oddometer:
    39
    Location:
    Redmond, WA, USA
    Wow.

    CP, thank you for all the information, though I must admit I am now more frustrated than ever...I buy a $9,000 bike and now I have to rebuild the damn engine.

    This might seem like a trivial replacement job to a seasoned wrench, but I am FAR from the same and the idea of undertaking this operation frightens the shiznit out of me.

    It seems to me that this fix, which seems to be "no biggie" to a lot of people, requires disassembling the ENGINE!
    ERK!!!

    I don't wanna do that, I'll destroy my motorcycle for sure.

    So...what's the deal, my bike is out of commission for the summer?
    If I go to a shop, will they charge me a thousand dollars?

    Is there anybody in the Seattle area that anyone knows who could help me with this repair?

    I'm sorry, but there's no WAY I can do a fix like this myself.
    Not without (it sounds like) air tools and a very complete workshop.

    CP, Do you know if I can call the stealership and ask them if my bike qualifies for that tech bulletin?
    And if it does, is it like a warranty thing, they'll fix it free of charge?

    Sorry for all the dumb questions, and thanks again.
    #27
  8. cpmodem

    cpmodem Orange Caveman

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Oddometer:
    7,130
    Location:
    masa yee yah tee 59° 14' 9" N / 135° 26' 42" W
    $9k for an '04? Did you buy it from a private party or a dealer? How long have you had this bike? Does it have silver wheels (early '04) or black wheels (late '04)? Checking for TB compliance does not require disassembly of the engine. Mearly the removal of a cover.
    #28
  9. southpawCG

    southpawCG Rick on the Road

    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Oddometer:
    39
    Location:
    Redmond, WA, USA
    You are right.

    Yes, the bike is an '04, and did set me back $9k, but it has a number of add-ons including a full titanium Akrapovic exhaust (the slip-ons alone usually list at $990-ish) and has barely been ridden.

    Obviously that's good and bad :)
    6000 miles, perfect condition (!) never down, KTM factory pannier set, crash bars, PIAA foglamps, etc.

    And yes, I took RTFM'ed (have the shop manual on CD) and you are absolutely right, just the removal of a cover.
    I am *much* more confident now.
    I will look into it carefully and proceed with the repair myself since I now know it's not actually that big a deal.
    Thanks for enlightening me!
    #29
  10. swahili74

    swahili74 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    10
    Location:
    montrose, colorado
    ktm will warranty the starting noise issue, they produce a kit specifically to fix the issue. part number 60040016044, "modification kit, torque limit"
    #30
  11. southpawCG

    southpawCG Rick on the Road

    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Oddometer:
    39
    Location:
    Redmond, WA, USA
    I can't believe you guys consider this an easy fix!
    You must be pretty amazing mechanics.

    I pulled that cover off, buoyed with confidence after reading that it was "merely the removal of a cover"...

    ...and proceeded to spill engine oil all over my floor.

    Nobody mentioned anything about there being oil in that chamber.
    Why wouldn't anyone have mentioned that? Considered too obvious?
    What else is too obvious to mention?

    Looking at the mechanism, I see no damage - the bolts seem fine, and they are all quite tight: so I don't know whether I should replace the parts with the ones I ordered.

    I am lost...and screwed.
    #31
  12. bluesurf

    bluesurf en dos ruedas

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Oddometer:
    1,080
    Location:
    Taxville
    You've got two options....

    1) call KTM USA, get the repair authorized, and have it done at I-90 (not my first choice) or Lynnwood Motoplex (better, but a bit farther). afaik then those are the only two KTM places in the immediate area.

    2) pull the starter gear and torque limiter ramp (these are the two outward most facing pieces) and either weld them together yourself or take them to a weld shop.

    PM me if you want more info; I'm also in Redmond, and while busy tonight, then can chat while I tend the bbq.
    #32
  13. southpawCG

    southpawCG Rick on the Road

    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Oddometer:
    39
    Location:
    Redmond, WA, USA
    Hey, Blue Surf...thanks a lot, I appreciate your help.

    Turns out I took it to I-90, got the rotor torqued off with an impact driver, and found that the rotor was just slipping on the crank.
    So we loctited the bolt down and torqued the hell out of it, problem solved.

    Some parts in there will still eventually require replacement, but I can do that job once I'm back from my trip.

    I now know everything I need to know about 2004 KTM 950 starters, so I guess that's how you learn - thru frustration! ;)
    #33
  14. coldone

    coldone n00b

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2008
    Oddometer:
    8
    ]the starter noise could be the spring releasing to soon--my 950 supermoto used to make a huge metal noise when starting--sounded like the engine was coming apart When starting the bike--remedy was under warranty--needed stronger springs--well documented problem with many of the supermoto 950s.



    cold, if it doesn't start completely on the first
    or second attempt, I hear a tremendous metal to metal KlanK noise as
    the engine comes to a stop. WTF is that?

    For instance let's say it's 55 degrees outside and I don't give it enough
    choke, if the start doesn't get the engine running I hear this as the engine
    comes to a stop.

    Anyone else experience this?

    It runs perfectly after starting. Prolly nothing to be alarmed about but
    I've never heard a bike do this before. This is a new '06 with 300 miles.[/QUOTE]
    #34