Stators demystified

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Luke, Dec 17, 2006.

  1. mouthfulloflake

    mouthfulloflake Not afraid

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Oddometer:
    33,889
    Location:
    The Berkeley of Arkansas
    Luke, can you explain this further to me?

    Ive got mine apart, cleaned up, and contemplating starting to wind the missing posts on the core it self.

    It appears I can get 3 windings, of 5 posts each, not sure about the 120 degrees apart deal though, am I missing something else?

    Thanks!

    <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/A3SJdCWgrHRKmSnWwso_nw?authkey=Gv1sRgCNSincrImsLftAE&feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_FXqRc9HMQv8/SZuOIRlDRYI/AAAAAAAAAGM/BvOzBmjXgWg/s800/100_4397.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/mouthfulloflake/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCNSincrImsLftAE&feat=embedwebsite">Drop Box</a></td></tr></table>



    #61
  2. Luke

    Luke GPoET&P

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Oddometer:
    5,264
    Location:
    Beaverton, OR
    Hey, that's pretty neat. I sure didn't expect to see anything like that.


    120* is describing the electrical signal, not the physical construction of the poles, exactly. If the flywheel had only one N and S magnet, then it would. If you have more than one N and S magnet, then divide 120* by the number of magnets to get the number of physical degrees separation of the stator winding poles.

    So in this case, the poles are 20* apart, if the core is meant for three phases, there should be 6 N and 6 S poles on the flywheel magnets, so a piece of steel should stick to 12 places.

    I'm a bit shaky on all that, so please try it and see if that's right before counting on it.





    By all means, go ahead and try winding it. Get the same number of turns on each winding. It matters which way all the windings get connected together. There should be some sort of guide online to getting it right based on the direction of the windings. I remember seeing one but don't remember where it was.
    #62
  3. mouthfulloflake

    mouthfulloflake Not afraid

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Oddometer:
    33,889
    Location:
    The Berkeley of Arkansas
    right, thanks.

    I plan to leave the stock in place, and wind the 2 others as closely as I can in guage and length.
    then wire it in the delta config, likely externally, so I have options if one phase goes south on me.

    Ill ask one of the engineers at work tommorow about this too.



    #63
  4. mouthfulloflake

    mouthfulloflake Not afraid

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Oddometer:
    33,889
    Location:
    The Berkeley of Arkansas
    I will be trying to determine the configuration of the magnets in the flywheel this evening, using this device as loaned to me from one of my engineer co-workers.

    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/rDPu4XmR7dxhZ2FyIVp2aQ?authkey=Gv1sRgCNSincrImsLftAE&feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_FXqRc9HMQv8/SaxI_jN017I/AAAAAAAAARo/N0vM9nDKmhY/s800/magnetometer.jpg" /></a>
    #64
  5. EvilGenius

    EvilGenius 1.5 Finger Discount

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2007
    Oddometer:
    20,337
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    Double checking to see if I got it right.

    OK, so reading from the first page, I should be able to figure out the voltage output of my stock stator (at idle) by unplugging it and while running the engine at idle checking the voltage (i'm assuming DC) difference across the terminals with my meter?

    I'd like to know what the stock output is since I haven't been able to find any info on it and the previous owner threw some extra lights on it but I'm not sure the stock stator puts out enough to keep the battery charged with them on.
    #65
  6. Luke

    Luke GPoET&P

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Oddometer:
    5,264
    Location:
    Beaverton, OR

    No, the stator voltage is designed for the load it is driving. For any 12V system, the unloaded stator voltage should be somewhere around 15-25VAC at idle. So unless the stator has been rewound or damaged you would expect to see about the same voltage regardless of the rated power output of the stator. Stator voltage is what you would check to figure out if the stator has the right number of coils on it.

    You can calculate stator output with all the formulas I posted by measuring the voltage with different known loads attached, but if you just want to see if the stator is good enough for your application, it's overly complicated.


    In your case, I'd just measure the battery directly. Set the voltmeter to VDC, and clip its leads directly to the battery terminals. Without starting the bike, turn the headlight on for 15 seconds or so. Turn it off, and note the battery voltage. Start the bike. If the battery voltage is a few tenths of a volt above the noted voltage, you know it is charging. If at or below, it is discharging.
    #66
  7. rickypanecatyl

    rickypanecatyl SE Asia adventure tours

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Oddometer:
    1,976
    Location:
    Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
    :lol3
    #67
  8. mouthfulloflake

    mouthfulloflake Not afraid

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Oddometer:
    33,889
    Location:
    The Berkeley of Arkansas
    12 magnet pulses inside my flywheel Luke.

    and it appears that the are north/south ( repeating).

    so it appears my idea of a pseudo 3 phase generator will work, ill start wiring it up in the next day or so.
    #68
  9. EvilGenius

    EvilGenius 1.5 Finger Discount

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2007
    Oddometer:
    20,337
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    Thanks!

    :thumb
    #69
  10. sgopher185

    sgopher185 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 10, 2006
    Oddometer:
    115
    Location:
    Plain City, Ohio
    I definitely need to watch this as I have a dirt DR350 that I want to dual sport. I just got an S stator and regulator and was going to go this route, but I might try the rewind route instead. Take GOOD pictures :evil

    #70
  11. mouthfulloflake

    mouthfulloflake Not afraid

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Oddometer:
    33,889
    Location:
    The Berkeley of Arkansas
    I wrapped it last night, need to drip some resin on it, and poke the wires thru the grommet and test it out!

    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/zKzi54VHHc3UYHKCgjTEUA?authkey=Gv1sRgCNSincrImsLftAE&feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_FXqRc9HMQv8/Sa9VsG_Gz-I/AAAAAAAAASw/pRDLiSlZWCM/s800/dr-stator.jpg" /></a>



    #71
  12. Exile

    Exile The Mundane and The Magic

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Oddometer:
    308
    Location:
    Sojourning
    #72
  13. dtysdalx2

    dtysdalx2 Just send it!

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Oddometer:
    29,423
    Location:
    Moneyapolis, MN
    How do you wind a 3 phase stator in Delta configuration?
    #73
  14. Seth S

    Seth S My avatar is ok. Your screen is broken

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    6,050
    Location:
    Bridgewater VT
    I always thought you were better off to go with smaller diameter wire when making your stator windings. The other side that I didn't see mentioned in this thread is the strength of the magnets. If you could build a flywheel up that uses rare earth magnets or whatever the strongest magnets you can get in combination with a rewound stator then your should have optimal output.....at a loss of engine power of course.
    #74
  15. Reposado1800

    Reposado1800 Juicy J fan!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,828
    Location:
    5th and Main
    I would like to see what Honda racing did to make the CRF450X run those big Baja headlights. They would not let anyone in on that secret.
    #75
    glittleman likes this.
  16. mouthfulloflake

    mouthfulloflake Not afraid

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Oddometer:
    33,889
    Location:
    The Berkeley of Arkansas
    #76
  17. mouthfulloflake

    mouthfulloflake Not afraid

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Oddometer:
    33,889
    Location:
    The Berkeley of Arkansas
    the smaller the wire you wind with the more limited current capacity you will end up with.

    it might make more PEAK voltage, but at a very small current ( small wires wont carry big current)



    #77
  18. dtysdalx2

    dtysdalx2 Just send it!

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Oddometer:
    29,423
    Location:
    Moneyapolis, MN
    #78
  19. huggybear

    huggybear Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Oddometer:
    384
    Location:
    Mississippi
    Luke
    In post # 29 you say that even with a battery You should install a capacitor also, Do you install the capacitor to the hot side of the battery.
    Hot wire from the stator to the + on the capacitor, thru the capacitor on to the + on the battery?
    Or is there another way to install the capacitor
    Thanks
    #79
  20. mouthfulloflake

    mouthfulloflake Not afraid

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Oddometer:
    33,889
    Location:
    The Berkeley of Arkansas
    you wind them the same way, the difference is in how the ends of the 3 ( phases) coils are connected.

    for instance, wind all 3 phases as you normally would, leave extra length on all 6 ends of wire, and stick them ALL thru the stator cover grommet, then you have options to wire it either way externally.

    get it?



    #80