Stealth Camping on Public Land

Discussion in 'Americas' started by dredman, Nov 24, 2019.

  1. nails1

    nails1 Been here awhile

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    In this thread you've been testing social limits, where the only apparent criteria and thing measured is whether it pisses people off. That's what makes it seem egregious. But I might've missed something.
  2. dredman

    dredman Dirty Moto-Tourist

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    Interesting observation, and I agree, but that was an inadvertent test - interesting yet inadvertent. I also think we are deeply submerged in outrage culture, and I have witnessed this submersion over the past decade. "How dare you talk about my sacred cow!! (idea, identity, experience, class, etc) I have never been afraid to engage with "The Offended & Outraged", but I no longer pander to them. I try a logical approach initially, but that seems to work less and less as we sink deeper into the well of emotion and pride?

    As of this post, this thread has 10k views. It may be 10 people viewing 1k times, or 1k+ people reading? I hope for the latter. My hopes are also that I have either changed some minds/ideas, or at least moved some people in a new direction.

    My guess is, as usual, the loudest most extreme voices get all the attention and tend to sway the narrative?
    What a shame.
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  3. X-wing fighter

    X-wing fighter Do or Do not, There is no try!!!!!! Supporter

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    I feel we have lost certain liberties as society and population changes over the past century.

    In 1920 you could travel across the USA and not pay for a single nights lodging. You could camp your way from New York to California and not be bothered much at all. Companies and individuals doing damage to public lands caused laws and regulations limiting use to the rest of us. Individuals damaging private property caused trespassing laws to be enforced more often as well... Then there is the worst, people suing over stupid things that occur on private property causing property owners to secure their lands better to reduce liability in case of a lawsuit. I feel that the bad eggs of the past caused all of the current laws restricting use of any lands the way we used to.

    That brings us to where we are and this discussion. Most of us reading this thread know how to setup and pack up a camp in which we damage nothing and leave no trace..... that is not the issue..... The issue is the bad eggs that don't.

    I don't think anyone here is advocating taking our machines on hiking trails or camping in sensitive areas, however bad eggs do that because they take the same arguments we are using here in a "do no harm/ stealth" discussion to justify their horrible behavior. The laws, regulations and enforcement then ramp up and we have to live with the results of a handful of stupid people doing stupid stuff.

    Do I advocate for anyone to break any law? No I do not. I equate me sneaking into the back corner of a park and sleeping in my bivy bag for a few hours to doing 10 mph over the posted speed limit....if I get caught, I am wrong and I will accept the consequences. Setting up a tent and camp fire in the same spot is like doing 50 mph over the posted speed limit in a school zone... someone should go to jail for that type of behavior.

    Some discussions on here you have to use a sliding scale of right and wrong, and look at what is being said.

    It's not my fault that I was born in the wrong century. It's not my fault that most of the land in the world is in some state of possession with laws attached to it's use. It's not my fault that idiots have done unspeakable damage that has limited our freedom.

    I do accept the consequences of my actions. I do live by the "leave no trace and do no harm mottos". I do ask permission and I do believe that I am an ambassador for transient, vagabond, existence pursuing my view of liberty on the edges of society.

    With that said, I will break trespassing laws in the interest of public safety.....no one wants a tired old man riding around looking for a legal spot to sleep when he could have gotten off the road and just slept in his bivy bag tucked up behind a church or something.
  4. nails1

    nails1 Been here awhile

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    Full stop. Why "inadvertent", when the bad image is so obvious? I get that you don't care about any images, but you're still projecting something harmful and I think you should take responsibility for that. Writing it off as mere "outrage culture" just supports the "fuck you" message you're sending. I'm asking you to care about this. I think I'm being "logical" about it.

    Several posts talk about "stealth" being discrete, but your "experiments" are anything but discrete. I think that's by design, but you haven't fessed up to that. Your "experiment" has an observational bias: the very experiment moves the goalpost of socially "possible", and in a bad direction. To put it more bluntly, I think you're trying to piss people off in some attempt to find out how far you can push. That's unhelpful.

    You'll have to speak for yourself on that one.

    Yeah. The modern reality is that we should be cognizant of what the LizBeth's see, as they're driving by on their way to the FS travel management public meeting. (Apologies to anyone actually named LizBeth.) The "unspeakable damage" isn't just fucking up the environment. We're living the legacy of those outlaw heroes (like a younger me) who didn't care (whether we even knew or not). We're behind the curve of social acceptance, even if that's through no fault of our own. Now is an unpropitious time to push that boundary.
  5. X-wing fighter

    X-wing fighter Do or Do not, There is no try!!!!!! Supporter

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    I live in Alaska, you should see how important hunting and fishing are up here to villages not connected to a road system. Social acceptance be damned! Just because most of the USA can walk into a store and buy meat doesn't mean everyone can. So because it's socially unacceptable to hunt, let alone hunt whales, we should not fight for protection of that right for those that need it to survive?

    Society is an unfair organization, but worse if you are just a member on the fringes..... Liberty is the freedom of an individual to move WITHIN society, even if society is trying to push you out.

    If you don't fight for your rights as you believe them to be, they will be unceremoniously taken away. You just need to be prepared to pay the price for your actions.

    Hold on to your hats!!!!!!

    Rosa Parks simply wanted to ride the bus.

    Sometimes it's a small violation to a socially accepted law that brings about change.
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  6. nails1

    nails1 Been here awhile

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    Yes, "socially acceptable" is a slippery slope; and a stupid, unfair way to have to live. I'll tone it down.

    But I'm struggling to see how wild camping on the median of a busy highway is like subsistence hunting. A better analogy might be wearing a wolf-skin jacket on a fashion runway -- I'm not accepting that either are really "necessary to survive". And I don't think either promotes much freedom. Rather, it impedes freedom by pointlessly (I argue) pissing people off. Never mind that I still don't think we really have any "right" to camp on busy highway medians.

    Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think that "experiment" was really testing any gear. It was testing what he could get away with. I still don't think that's helpful these days.

    Let's use a little more discretion ... and stealth.
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  7. dredman

    dredman Dirty Moto-Tourist

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    First, I think you are being logical too, I just disagree.

    Obvious? I think "bad image" is relative to the viewer? Personally, I think loud pipes on motorcycles project a bad image for all of us, and have a HUGE negative impact on our perceptions from the public. The difference between these two is HUGE! In comparison, the "ideal-stealth" is nobody outside this thread should know what I am doing in the woods, but perhaps that is the entire problem?

    Seriously, examine that idea for a moment:
    A - a fucktard with straight-pipes rattling every window in 5 square miles
    versus
    B - a guy hiding in the woods behind a tarp

    Which one is TRULY the bad image? Or is the entire "image" contained in this thread?

    I am pretty sure the ONE thing that most of the ruffled feathers have failed to address is - WHAT is the DAMAGE? Is it simply appearances? Have I crossed the line of etiquette? Or is it something bigger?

    Finally, the 'fuck you' message you keep referring to is certainly inadvertent. That is YOUR impression, and certainly not my intent, so please do not attempt try to attribute motive sir.


    I certainly did here: https://advrider.com/f/threads/stealth-camping-on-public-land.1418000/page-14#post-39141572


    Pure conjecture on your part.


    I really pushed the boundary of stealth in the video in question ( I am assuming we are discussing the "Urban Stealth" video?) Pushing the boundary of stealth - VISUAL STEALTH - was the main objective. I do have some curiosity about the legal and social effects of this type of camping, and may even test those boundaries in the future, however THAT video was a simple test of the VISUAL boundaries. If I do test the legal/social boundaries in the future I will be sure to post the results here, and I thank you for the enlightenment :)

    This thread is a discussion of an activity I and others have participated in a great deal, and will continue for sometime. This discussion is meant to pass ideas back and forth, it is not meant to trigger outrage.

    I hope that clears a few things up about my intentions?
  8. dredman

    dredman Dirty Moto-Tourist

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    Absolute brilliance !! :clap
  9. dredman

    dredman Dirty Moto-Tourist

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    It was ABSOLUTELY testing equipment? I am guessing you did not watch the video? I stated it pretty clearly @ 3:47 - you should go back and watch?
    It was also testing what is possible - "It was testing what he could get away with" is strictly your interpretation of what my intentions were.
  10. nails1

    nails1 Been here awhile

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    Agreed, loud pipes are most unhelpful, too.

    All the above. I'm trying to convey that appearances, projecting a negative image like this, is "bigger".

    Accepted. I'm just saying, that's the message that comes across. (And I'm actually sympathetic to your cause.)

    Well, that was my "pure conjecture".

    I'll confess, I haven't watched all your vids. I may be over-reacting to the few I did watch. (Frankly, the few I saw turned me off wanting to watch the rest. Sorry -- that's just me.)

    I'm a proud member of that group, and I'm trying to contribute that to the discussion. I'm complaining about NOT stealth and unnecessarily pissing people off. We don't need any more enemies. But I've had my say and I'll shut up about it now. (I expect a lot of Likes for THAT.)
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  11. dredman

    dredman Dirty Moto-Tourist

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    I think I understand your position now and I appreciate the honesty - kinda rare nowaday?
    I feel like we are making some progress also?

    I also am pretty sensitive about my message, and I do think a lot about perceptions and how other people will interpret that message. I never saw THIS much negative coming from the "obvious stealth" attempt, but really that was as much for me as it was for you folks? I learned a lot, and I dangled my toes off the edge. Maybe next time I will put some disclaimers at the beginning? I have actually done that before?

    I never know how folks will react to my comments, or actions, typed or spoken, till after they are submitted. I do think that so many times I get objections because of the simple fact people do not read the entire post, watch the entire video, or listen to what I say - they hear the trigger, burst into flames, and make it their mission to make me pay for my atrocities of speech & ideas.

    I am all ears if you have some good advice on how to correct that?
    I try to choose my words carefully, but I am sure I can do better?
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  12. nails1

    nails1 Been here awhile

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    We call ourselves "inmates", but honestly we're mostly just atrocious.
    Use periods instead of all the question marks! We're saying what we mean.
    Thanks for the discussion. Apologies for being so atrocious.
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  13. dredman

    dredman Dirty Moto-Tourist

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    No apologies required, I am a bit aggressive at times, and lose focus occasionally.
    Hell at least we are talking, even when we disagree - that puts us MILES away from the rest of America, and maybe even the world?
    I will try to work on the punctuation? :lol2
  14. -E-

    -E- Klaatu barada nikto Supporter

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    That is how I interpret your version of stealth. Or experiment or education or whatever you call this to justify yourself. But that's like just my opinion man.
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  15. dredman

    dredman Dirty Moto-Tourist

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    I expected a bit of pushback from the first post and video, and the thread in general. The term itself, "stealth" implies a reason or intention of being furtive or unobtrusive. I get the implication most will get that this activity is NECESSARILY illegal. That is part of the reason I started this thread and discussion, to talk about the implications.

    But I NEVER expected the outrage from my "version" of stealth?

    I never would have anticipated the outrage of the mere attempt to stealth in plain sight?

    Honestly, I still don't get it?

    I may or may not have violated some statute about camping near a business, in town, next to a highway, etc.

    But I really was completely unaware that my experiment was violating one of the 10 Stealth Commandments?

    I am ready to do my penance.
  16. Oh2RideMore

    Oh2RideMore Long timer

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    Colorado is the most expensive state parks I have ever stayed at. Tried stealth camping my last trip using freecampsites.net and stayed on public land in colorado. Rode into one colorado state park to have a look, and the ranger wanted park pass, daily pass, and only then was picknicking allowed. Not sure why they are so expensive. Stayed at two other army coe campgrounds, much more reasonable.
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  17. dredman

    dredman Dirty Moto-Tourist

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    Never been impressed with state parks in ANY state. Every single Corps park I have been to was exceptional - I am huge fan!
  18. CavReconSGT

    CavReconSGT Just the right amount of evil. Supporter

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    Excuse my ignorance. What is a "Corps" park?

    KR
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  19. dredman

    dredman Dirty Moto-Tourist

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    United States Army Corps of Engineers - look for them near any waterway

    The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is one of the nation's leading federal providers of outdoor recreation with more than 400 lake and river projects in 43 states. Visitors of all ages can enjoy traditional activities like hiking, boating, fishing, camping and hunting, and for those slightly more adventurous there is snorkeling, windsurfing, whitewater rafting, mountain biking and geo-caching. Regardless of your favorite outdoor activity one thing is certain, recreation enriches people's lives. A visit to an Army Corps of Engineers' recreation area can strengthen family ties and friendships; create unforgettable memories and connect people to nature that will last a lifetime.

    https://www.usace.army.mil/
  20. CavReconSGT

    CavReconSGT Just the right amount of evil. Supporter

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    Got it. Thanks.

    KR