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Steering Stabilizer and Cushioned Bar Mounts

Discussion in 'Parallel World (790/890)' started by DustBuster, Apr 28, 2020.

  1. DustBuster

    DustBuster Adventurer

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    I have found when riding off road there is one thing you can install on your bike and never really know how many times it saved your bacon, a good steering stabilizer. If it does it's job, you really didn't know. But if you don't have one you may end up in a pile and wish you had one. So based on 30+ years of experience, I install one on every bike I take off road.

    To follow that up there is a difference between an on-road stabilizer, that is designed to help stop high speed head shake and an off-road stabilizer which should be designed to soften deflection (not all are). Our KTM 790s came with an on-road design hence IMO the need to replace if you are thinking about doing more than just graded dirt roads. I'm a fan of sub-mounts, keeps the damper out of the way and I am normally looking for a little bar rise anyway.

    Next up are cushioned bar mounts, I haven't run one in the past but there are many top riders who swear by them to take the hit out of fork action, reduce vibration, save your wrist and make long days easier. So I thought I would look for a steering damper mount that could accept a cushioned bar mount if I wanted to add that.

    I see these viable options :

    BRP/Scotts Submount - Well known and solid companies, but I'm not a huge fan of how cluttered this mount looks and reviews say it's bar cushioning is just ok. $359 for the mount only (if you have a scotts already) or $659 for the kit with damper.
    https://www.shopbrp.com/ktm/product/2468-brp-rubber-mtd-sub-mount-2019-ktm-790-adventure-r.html
    https://www.scottsonline.com/Stabilizer_Purchase2.php?Bike_ID=7765&BI_ID=1250562

    Scotts_BRP.jpg

    XRC Damper - Chris Birch design, this is probably my favorite, the design keeps the damper tucked away. The cushioned bar mount is integrated and appears to be KTM/Xtrig system. Big problem is getting it in the U.S., I can only find it for sale in NZ and at $980 + shipping ($594 US at time of post). It looks like they are using the BRP pin tower but I didn't confirm that or if it needed to be purchased seperately.
    https://www.motomox.co.nz/shop/show_single_product.php?prod=1006

    XRC damper.jpg

    Tripleclamp moto/Scotts - Nice clean low profile design for a sub-mount. Can add Xtrig PHDS cushioned bar mounts. Mount $170 (on sale for $129), Xtrig bar mounts $190, Scotts damper $360. $720 all in at full price.

    https://www.tripleclampmoto.com/col...xtrig-phds-kit-for-ktm-and-husqvarna-50100007
    https://www.tripleclampmoto.com/col...mp-moto-steering-damper-for-ktm-790-adventure
    https://www.scottsonline.com/Stabilizer_Purchase2.php?Bike_ID=7765&BI_ID=1250716

    triple mount.jpg triple phds.jpg

    Mako 360/Scotts - By far the best cushioned bar mount, high quality. Used by some top racers. They have a sub-mount system for the 790 ready but not on their website yet. They do not make a pin tower so you have to buy the BRP tower. Mako 360 $409, Mako submount, $130, Scotts damper $360, BRP tower $89. All in $988. Might be able to cut $90 off this by using the Tripleclamp moto sub-mount (which come with pin tower) and Mako 360 bar mount on top. I haven't confirmed the combo works.

    As of today need to email for the damper mount kit, not on website yet.
    https://xcgear.myshopify.com/products/mako-360-xcm14k2?rq=yr_2019~mk_ktm~md_790-adventure-r
    https://www.scottsonline.com/Stabilizer_Purchase2.php?Bike_ID=7765&BI_ID=1250716
    https://www.shopbrp.com/ktm/product/2466-2019-ktm-790-adventure-r-bolt-on-frame-bracket.html

    mako damper.jpg mako mount.jpg mako 360.jpeg


    As I already own a Scotts damper that cuts $360 off all Scotts options and makes the XRC more expensive. As I stated earlier the BRP is solid but I'm not a fan of that design.
    That leaves:
    1) Tripleclamp Moto submount / Xtrig PHDS
    2) Mako sub-mount / Mako 360
    Hybrid) Tripleclamp moto sub-mount / Mako 360

    MY logical brain is saying the 790 doesn't need the level of bar dampening the Mako 360 provides, it's not a 2-stroke or thumper and I won't be racing cross country with it. So the Tripleclamp moto / PHDS is the ticket and save the extra $268.

    My bling brain says the Mako 360 technology is cool, it works and it's only $268 more...

    Anyone have experience with KTM PHDS / Xtrig or the Mako 360?

    Any options I am missing?

    Attached Files:

    #1
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  2. windblown101

    windblown101 Long timer Supporter

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    @DustBuster

    Lots of detailed info there! I've had the BRP and Mako XC in my hands. I couldn't get past the weight of them. They are stout without a doubt though. I've run the KTM PHDS system on a 690. Seemed to work ok but was nothing earth shattering about it.

    On the 790 I run a Scotts with a TripleClampMoto submount and KTM dirt bike handlebars. Light, simple, effective. *shrug*

    IMHO the sheer mass of the 790 goes along way to absorbing hits before it makes it's way to the handlebars and I don't find the bike vibey at the handlebars so the isolation is just more than I need. YMMV.
    #2
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  3. TrailTrauma

    TrailTrauma Nemophilist

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    What RPM do you ride at? I'm upping a gear this yr, (and maybe dropping a tooth in the front) to see what happens with the vibes. Add to that the foam grips, but that's entirely off topic. Bottom line is there are easier ways to mitigate vibration that pushing oneself in purchasing a Mako. I was going to initially, but found other means for hopefully achieving dampening results. Last season I was screaming around at 8K most of the time. I just like the responsiveness of the bike at higher RPM's. But the vibes at those RPM's catches up with my neuropathy at a certain point.
    #3
  4. windblown101

    windblown101 Long timer Supporter

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    Off the pavement I rarely go over 6k rpms. I often run even less if on a flowy piece of track. I tend to seldom ride at a higher RPM than what I envision I need in the way of power on tap. I'll occasionally tap into higher RPM power for a couple of different reasons but I don't stay there long as a rule. For me, revving the motor out is for hooning around and burning up tires. A handful of throttle at peak HP just turns rubber into smoke anyway, Haha.

    It can be a ton of fun but for me that's something I might do for a few minutes for laughs. I generally ride better, faster, and with more control when the RPMS aren't up in the nose bleed section.

    And yes, if you're riding around at 8k rpms I can see why you might feel a bit different about the bikes vibes. :)
    #4
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  5. el Pete

    el Pete toda su base

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    I'm running the same set-up (w/stock bars) and don't feel the need for additional damping. I prefer the lower bar height over the other choices.
    #5
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  6. Nowwhat

    Nowwhat I'll Go Second... Super Supporter

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    Just put the xc gear set up on my 501..
    Changed all the hardware to Ti...12 bolts add up
    #6
  7. TrailTrauma

    TrailTrauma Nemophilist

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    Half the time I can't tell if you're being comical or not hahaha
    #7
  8. Nowwhat

    Nowwhat I'll Go Second... Super Supporter

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    Resized_20200420_110045.jpeg
    #8
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  9. [Art]

    [Art] Been here awhile

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    #9
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  10. blackSP

    blackSP Love the Pussy Wagon

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    #10
  11. Defender90

    Defender90 Adventurer

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    Have Scotts damper and their mount kit with the damping rubbers. However the handlebar
    feel rock solid so I wonder where the vibration damping is? I have the red dampers as the
    unit came with them. Haven't been riding much as it's still freezing here, luckily we're allowed
    to ride around despite Covid-19, Finland is so sparse populated.

    If you have this combo, how is your handle bar, is the some "vibration damping"?
    #11
  12. Nowwhat

    Nowwhat I'll Go Second... Super Supporter

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    Thats all it is....not really an impact solution like the XC or something like flex bars....

    I agree with Windblown above these smooth big twins need less if any vibration mitigation compared to a thumper...
    #12
  13. Nowwhat

    Nowwhat I'll Go Second... Super Supporter

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  14. DustBuster

    DustBuster Adventurer

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    What got me thinking about a cushioned bar mount for the 790 was seeing that Chris Birch runs one, not that I'm under any illusion that i'm at his level or that I need the same set up, but top riders like Chris have some good tips to make long days easier on the body. For the 790 this would be more about taking the jar out of big hits than engine vibration. He also runs foam grips. From reading the article Chris doesn't appear to bling out his bike, just sets it up for his use.

    It's also possible that's the only way the XRC damper comes so the 790 got bar cushioned mounts by default :-)

    Picture from ADVPulse article on Chris Birch 790 set up.
    Chris-Birch-KTM-790-Adventure-R-setup-3.jpg
    #14
  15. TrailTrauma

    TrailTrauma Nemophilist

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    ...and the less you bling/mod out a bike, as the racers will tell you, there is a higher chance that the next guy will have an OEM spare of something you might need.
    #15
  16. 1coolbanana

    1coolbanana Long timer

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    Im a big fan of Scotts and use them on evry bike Ive had.
    With my limited skills, Im sure its saved my bacon many times.

    Im not a fan of damped.
    So far Ive never found a damped setup to provide any real advantage over solid.
    Just clutters everything up and doesnt look nice to my eye.
    I went for the BRP undamped on the 990 and now the TCM on the 790.
    Apart from being way cheaper, no apparent disadvantage and looks heaps cleaner.
    Also seems to give more options in bar location.
    Just MHO

    Clean and simple :-)

    [​IMG]
    #16
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  17. blackSP

    blackSP Love the Pussy Wagon

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    Definitely not a street damper and quite effective. I have both, the Scott on my 500 exc and the Hyperpro on my 790 R and the both have the same effect.., bot can be fully adjusted (although the Scott has more options that I never used, set once, forget basically).
    Can you please explain where I am wrong in my experience with both?
    #17
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  18. Nowwhat

    Nowwhat I'll Go Second... Super Supporter

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    The hyper pro IS A STREET DAMPER..

    It is a rebound damper that provides resistance in both directions to stop tank slappers... it is for squid bikes

    A Scott's off road damper is free to center
    #18
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  19. DustBuster

    DustBuster Adventurer

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    I don’t think there is a right or wrong here, it’s personal preference and also determined by what you intend to use the bike for and the conditions you normally ride in.

    Hyperpro does make an RSC damper which is reactive and would be considered more of a off road damper. Might be missing the return to center feature of a Scott’s off road but i couldn’t tell from a quick read.

    From what I know there are a couple differences between street and off road dampers:

    Street are a constant dampening design, so you get the same effect turning away from center and back to center. Most have a single circuit so you can adjust the dampening rate but don’t have a high speed / deflection circuit.

    A true off road design has a couple unique features, they dampen more away from center than return to center, so the rider can snatch back a big wheel deflection and they have both a slow speed circuit and high speed circuit so the normal dampening rate is different from when you hit a rock with the front wheel.

    Scott’s sells both types and sums up the difference on their website:

    Damper Type:

    Off road stabilizers are designed to have "NO" rebound damping, so they return to center freely, un-obstructing the riders instinctive reflex to make steering corrections for slides. Road bike stabilizers HAVE rebound damping to help control the notorious "speed wobble" scenario commonly found on road bikes. It does not mean you cannot use either type for the other application, these are the preferred usage by most riders. Dual sport bikes can use either type, it's personal preference. The normal selection is determined by which type of riding you will do most.

    This is a good read if you want to know more.
    https://www.scottsonline.com/scotts.php
    #19
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  20. TrailTrauma

    TrailTrauma Nemophilist

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    They do but not for the 790 that I could tell when filtering product results by bike. I think the 790 product is the CSC.
    #20