Stoves

Discussion in 'Camping Toys' started by ibgary, Jul 3, 2015.

  1. nvklr

    nvklr Been here awhile

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    Keeping the canister in my sleeping on my last trip to Yosemite when the temp got down in the low 20’s seemed to help quite a bit. YMMV

    Greatwhite - thanks for those links!
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  2. Grinnin

    Grinnin Forever N00b Supporter

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    Thanks, @GreatWhiteNorth

    I just logged on to ask if anyone has put their canister in a pan of water. Body temperature water would be warmer than the canister when camping in cool temps, and the water would transfer heat pretty well to keep the canister from cooling itself as fast from the dropping pressure.

    Only to find that you linked to https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/12/gas-stoves-in-cold-weather-regulator.html and he uses warm water to do exactly that.

    For the record, we were both using MSR canisters that Hikin' Jim lists as better for cold weather.

    I don't know if the MSR Pocket Rocket or Pocket Rocket Deluxe are regulated. I'll read more of Hikin' Jim's guides and reviews.

    While he says that inverted canisters are better, I'm probably not buying YET ANOTHER stove. Plus I like the compact pack size of the burner threading right on the canister.

    You've given me plenty to read on the topic. I wonder if he ever compares using smaller and larger canisters; I still think a large canister would make a significant difference. I could carry small canisters in warm areas and switch to larger ones as we get close to higher elevations.

    Thanks!
  3. 2old2Bbold

    2old2Bbold was 2bold2getold

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    The first old butane canisters were a real problem. At certain temps and elevations (pressures) the gas simply wouldn't come out. Propane helped with that problem but most people won't take a chance with canister gas and pick liquid fuel for better reliability and energy efficiency at altitude on serious climbs. A little more messy and noisy but dependable in most cases.
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  4. GreatWhiteNorth

    GreatWhiteNorth Long timer

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    "I'm probably not buying YET ANOTHER stove."

    I hear you. Easy to get sucked in to buying more gear. I love trying out different stoves tho. I bought an MSR Windpro II remote canister stove a while back - very nice. I gifted it to my daughter and her husband for camping. It's a very safe 4 season stove IMO. My son-in-law doesn't like playing with fire, so no liquid fuel for him.

    For cold weather, I prefer liquid fuel... I have a few (too many?) stoves in my collection to chose from, but gravitate towards the MSR Whisperlite in the cold. Surprisingly, propane works OK in the cold, can be used ice fishing! Here, we're out ice fishing, with the oh-so-reliable Coleman 335 lantern and MSR Whisperlite. Gotta be bloody careful operating that stuff in a confined space like an ice fishing shelter or tent.

    IMG_20170129_1409504_stitch.jpg
  5. Grinnin

    Grinnin Forever N00b Supporter

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    I've used liquid fuel for years (white gas and pump gas, not alcohol). Extra convenient with a large fuel tank on the MC so I didn't have to carry a separate supply of fuel.

    It's just that the ease of isobutane is great. The stove I have is so quiet and it packs so small. I don't think I've mentioned that there's no priming or pumping, just connect the canister, open the valve and press the piezo igniter. (Do I sound like a recent convert?)

    I was just surprised at the moderate temperature at which isobutane started to have trouble cooking. This wasn't winter camping or a serious climb.

    Hikin' Jim seems to have a lot of pointers for cold weather cooking with isobutane.
  6. GreatWhiteNorth

    GreatWhiteNorth Long timer

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    "(Do I sound like a recent convert?)"

    I went thru the same thing. I kind of stiffly resisted canister stoves for the longest time, but the compactness, quick set-up and ease of use won me over. This set-up is what I carry for daytrips in my "Go Bag", and for longer trips too.

    20191117_151436.jpg

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  7. MiteyF

    MiteyF Long timer

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    The killers for me on ISO is the noise, and the lack of a simmering ability. I don't care how quiet your canister stove is, it isn't as quiet as my alcohol. And when I'm out camping by myself in the middle of nowhere, I don't need to hear the roar of my stove. Sometimes I get stuck under my tarp for an entire afternoon/evening between setting up camp in the rain, and going to bed. When I do, I like to cook. A can of beans, some cut up brats, a few veggies and spices... simmer for... well, as long as I can, slowly, low heat, something to do while I read etc. I can burn an alcohol stove for a LONG time at a simmer, not going to happen on a canister stove.

    Now, I HAVE a canister stove that I'll take sometimes when I'm camping with the wife, but mostly as a backup, or if I need hot water while the alcohol is already in use.
  8. Scotty P

    Scotty P Funny Like a Clown

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    Yes.......the old boy scout trick. :nod
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  9. Eatmore Mudd

    Eatmore Mudd Mischief on wheels.

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    I am totally flabbergasted that there are folks who don't know this.
  10. nickguzzi

    nickguzzi Long timer

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    It's all about the latent heat of evaporation.
    Back when I took the whole family camping and needed (felt we needed) more btus available for cooking, I used a large CampingGaz refillable cylinder. I forget the weight, but you would need at least a cu ft box to hold it.

    [​IMG]

    I remember trying to make a cuppa overlooking the sea, somewhere in Wales one easter. Wouldn't happen, the jug froze, at least it got all frosted.

    You need heat energy to power the change in state from liquid to gas. If the ambient conditions won't provide, then you need to intervene. If it is wind chill causing the lack of evaporation, then a windbreak will help. If it is low temperatures, then you will have to import warmth. Which is where it possibily gets scary.
    Campingaz refillables I think have an over pressure valve, so would be safer than aerosol types. But having seen ramdom ones thrown on fires, they seem more robust than you would at first think.

    I mostly use the taller aerosol format that is often used with cut price cheap mapp torches. Same screw on fitting.
    [​IMG]
    The containers are very cheap, but usually are a mix of propane and butane, so will start to freeze at a higher temperature. But here we can get them anywhere, very cheap. The expensive Colman, Snopeak etc may give more burn time per volume, and at a higher temperature, but cost up to 3x the price.

    I only camp in the south of France these days, so I hope this situation never revisits, but if it should, at least there are lots of cafes, bars and restaurants that will gladly do the job for me.
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  11. GreatWhiteNorth

    GreatWhiteNorth Long timer

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    Hi Nick, I really enjoy your posts, but am going to disagree over something... "If it is wind chill causing the lack of evaporation" - inanimate objects do not sweat, therefore no evaporative process is occurring to the "skin" of the object. What is being observed there is a greater heat transfer occurring due to the wind. More cold air (greater volume/mass) blowing the heat away from the stove... more cold air cooling everything down! Does this make sense?

    At the risk of getting waaay off topic (but sort of related), I'm always puzzled by folks that think having the radiator of their vehicle pointed into the wind will make it harder to start (when it's really cold out)!?
    nickguzzi likes this.
  12. Trixie

    Trixie Adventurer in my own mind

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    They do form condensation, however. The evaporation which he refers is occurring inside the can due to pressure lowering as it is burned, which causes adiabatic cooling, hence the condensation/frosting on the outside.
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  13. nickguzzi

    nickguzzi Long timer

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    Yes you are right - if I had written "chill wind".

    In order to change phase from a liquid to a gas, the liquid must take heat from its surroundings. As Trixie explains, the lower the temperature the more likely atmospheric water vapour will condense. To do this energy must be exchanged, so the gas we want is being hit by a double whammy - the cooler the conditions the more they fight against the gas being formed - to the point of freezing.

    In full summer, when using a big propane burner for industrial work, I have had the 50kg bottles freeze, even on a hot day.
  14. GreatWhiteNorth

    GreatWhiteNorth Long timer

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    I agree. This is why I was so surprised propane appliances could actually work ice fishing. It's usually warm enough in a shelter that the propane bottle doesn't get cold enough to stop the liquid propane from converting to gas. It helps I think to keep the tank off the ice with something (a little insulation). I can recall about 20 years ago a lot of fleet vehicles were being converted to propane. I don't think that worked out that well in winter!?
  15. motrhead

    motrhead Travellin' Soul

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    Vehicle propane systems generally work fine in the winter. They use liquid withdrawal, and a water heated regulator.
    As was stated earlier, the trick with propane is to have a big enough bottle if you need to withdraw propane at a higher rate. I have frequently used tiger torches in the winter, without too much diffiuculty , but when it gets *really* cold you may have to occasionally heat the bottle too.
    GreatWhiteNorth likes this.
  16. MrPulldown

    MrPulldown Long timer

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    As my 2nd attempt for a hanging stove I bought a Primus Classic Trail. Bought off of ebay. The seller was in Sacramento. Should have made the 100 mile trip in no time. However, for some reason the unit when to LA, then to Seattle, back to San Francisco, before coming up to me. Looks like it will work well. I am impressed with the quality of these units. Looking at them some more, the GSI basic stove might be a tab better as I like the wire bail on/off knob vs the plastic one.
    primus Trail basic.jpg

    GSI version
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    https://www.moosejaw.com/product/gs...ET9-rJG1TSAJzQagbpwy7uymZkc625XYaAuXEEALw_wcB

    While I was traveling about this thanksgiving a stopped by a Ranch 99 Chinese Supermarket, and picked up 2 canister of Butane fuel, for my "banquet" stove. 1.99 a can. I don't use this stove much anymore, but nice to have ready to go.
    [​IMG]
  17. Big D

    Big D Sunny SoCal

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    +1 for the Primus Classic Trail stove it's larger burner seems to heat larger pans more evenly than the pocket rocket type burners that have more center heat. enjoy 07 GSA SoCal
  18. Grinnin

    Grinnin Forever N00b Supporter

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    Stoves with large burners like that also tend to be quieter. How's this one? @MrPulldown ? @Big D ?
  19. MrPulldown

    MrPulldown Long timer

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    I haven't tried it yet. Will tonight and report back.

    I am a white gas fan: whisperlight and coleman double. New to this whole butane mix stove thing.
  20. david61

    david61 Queue, a word with 4 silent letters....

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    I'll assume the Trail Designs titanium cone set-ups have been mentioned in this thread, it's my go to since forever.

    Find somewhere to camp for the night, routine is to check the bike over, then crank up the little alcohol burner in the cone, fill with water, spend all of 5/6 mins setting up tarp and bivi, throw sleeping pad and quilt inside, pull up my little chair [ my only self-indulgence ] by then the water is simmering away nicely, cook up whatever I'm having. I usually use the alcohol burner, or burn sticks, not a fan of the stinky tablets.
    [​IMG]
    Quite, peaceful, low stress, I'm feeding myself and all is good in the world....