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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by VikingMoto, Apr 4, 2020.
That's what made me think of the saw.
I figured you knew about Aron Ralston, but not everyone does and it is a hell of a story.
But, what if the saw is on the other side of the bike - out of reach? Should he call the rescue squad to come and hand him the saw, then they have a legitimate reason to haul him off in the ambulance? You know, not wasting resources.
A year ago. I was riding sweep for a group, because I am the slowest. It was a large group and they split up with all the fast riders way ahead. The group riding protocol seem to be forgotten.
I came upon at AT leaning into a hill side. The trail was very rutted, and I just has a get off with a good head plant. It rang my bell a bit. Since no one was around, I assume he had a nature call and would come out of the woods in a few. I also assumed it was leaned into hill, because the trail was pretty rutted and getting good footing for the kickstand would be difficult. So I waited for a minute, then noticed a helmet popping up from the hillside under the bike. The rider has lost it in the ruts, like the ones that took me out. He was trapped with both leg pinned under the bike. He wasn't hurt but in a weird position with both legs folded, and basically concealed. He was not a very big guy and the bike had him covered. I was able to lift the beast off him.
He was very relieved, because he though he was the last in line in the group and might spend the night under his bike. It was the last ride of a 3 day event and everyone else, already headed back to town, and the trail we were on is pretty remote.
I suggested he get a Spot or InReach, because he had tried his cell, but there was no coverage on the north side of that mountain.
As we say in NM, Caca Pasa. (translation: $hit Happens)
It is a conundrum, isn't it?
If no one was riding "sweep", that speaks very poorly of the people who organized the event.
You don't go drink beer in town and leave someone out on the trail, PERIOD.
A big thumbs-up to you for taking the time to check out the situation and helping the guy.
This is where cyanide pills come in handy.
If you hollow out one of your molars and keep the pill inside the tooth, you'll always be able to take care of yourself and avoid inconveniencing emergency personnel.
NOTE : the above is a JOKE.
DO NOT EAT CYANIDE, ever.
And buy a lightweight enduro bike if you want to ride the gnarly stuff.
You'll be glad you did !
Husky360 you are absolutely correct.
That day it was kind of the group mentality you see the last day of the ski season, where the boundaries, rules, and ropes are disregarded. As the main organizer (event, not this particular ride), I share the most blame. I usually ride sweep, because I am a slow rider and pretty cautious,. The group was too large to really control, and rider skill too varied. Technically that day was an ad hoc ride after the event and so not really sanctioned. We do however need to work on a post ride check in process.
I was pretty PO'ed that no one came back for us, or even waited at the next trail junction (in a group you are responsible for the rider behind you). Trail protocol was well known, and explained to everyone in the beginning. But you cannot always herd cats. If my get off had been worse than a few separated ribs; from perfect over the bars, one point landing on the top of my helmet. There could have been two of us out there. I don't think I had a concussion, but I did ring my bell a bit. That is why I probably was initially confused by an AT leaning against the hill. Due to our get offs, we ended up being a good 45 minutes behind the next closest rider. My ribs did not make lifting the AT very much fun either. Behavior like this is one reason I sometimes prefer to ride alone.
I do know one friend/rider with the group who would have come back looking for us, but it could have been a while.
After my head plant, I did buy a new helmet (one and done). I added neck brace because the chin of the helmet is what separated my ribs from the sternum. At my skill level I need all the armor I can get. Also, I do always carry a InReach.
Sorry but I disagree with your analysis.
1 ... The risk of a attacked by a predator in the lower 48 states while being trapped on your bike is minimal to say the least....no reason to spend the night ! He could have requested a tow truck ! ! ...been free in about hour or so I would guess !!
2 .... The OP stated he was a AGAT rider ...6,500 is not high ... I live at 6,000 I know how warm riding season night's are ... He was in no danger of hypothermia in his adv gear ... Uncomfortable ... Not life threatening. Plus a tow truck would have arrived in a timely fashion IF he called for one.
3 .... And this is the IMPORTANT one ... He had working 2 way text communication .... He could have requested a tow truck ! ! ... He could have request a non emergency help from the sheriff ...
Bottom line he was uninjured and not in a life threatening situation with 2 way communications to the world .
He panic IMHO called 911 ... A miss-use of the emergency services.
The older I get, the less I enjoy the high probability of being involved in scenarios such as you've described.
Most of my backcountry travels are now done on a bike that weighs 320 lbs fully loaded. On the days where the big bike jouns me, I've resigned myself to never attempting to save a drop. I hop of and away from the bike like a frog escaping hot pavement.
Glad to hear that you were uninjured.
We always have one of the fastest guys ride sweep on group rides. The reason for this is that should something happen like a crash or "the next guy in line" not keeping an eye on his six, sweep can gather his part of the group for a "wait here" break and catch the rest of the group in order to reorganize.
At this juncture it's safe to say everyone in this thread understands your position.
I certainly respect your right to disagree, and I can see your position, but what I think you're choosing to ignore is that DURING a crisis, things are never as clear as they are afterward. People sometimes make choices that seem "wrong" afterward but at the time seemed like the best choice. There's a really good true story written about the sinking of a ferry in the Baltic Sea, which illustrates how seemingly inconsequential choices can literally make the difference between life and death. For those who like reading true stories of survival, you can read it at the link below. It's an incredible story and it underscores the importance of ruthlessly clear thinking when the excrement impacts the turbine :
I think the most valuable "takeaway" from this thread is the OP served the community in a positive way by telling his story. There are multiple important lessons which can be learned, such as the added safety in riding with other people, the importance of staying within your riding abilities / avoiding situations that could prove too difficult, when riding a bike you might have trouble picking up, etc.
If I'd been trapped under a bike I may have used the Garmin too. Why ? Because I have more than once witnessed tow truck drivers NEVER SHOWING UP, and I know emergency services are far less likely to flake out. I've also had terrible luck reaching the cops for "non-emergency" situations, so I am not sure I would have chosen that route either. Like it or not, emergency services tend to be folks you can count on to a higher degree than the other options you mentioned.
Now, despite having been in some hairy situations over the years, I've never actually requested rescue in a backcountry situation, or on a boat offshore with failing systems and an entire crew ( other than me ) which was incapacitated, but if I ever do, I will not be concerned about whether calling emergency services will offend some person who has no direct involvement in the situation. Once you reach a certain stage in life, you realize it doesn't matter what some other person thinks about how you lived. All that matters is whether you are yourself ok with the decisions you've made and the actions you've taken.
[QUOTE="jay547, post: 39754521, member: 193454"[/QUOTE]
I reckon Mel Gibson gave that guy what he deserved
I presume there was a two-way conversation with the emergency services and THEY decided to come, rather than just sending a tow truck. In this particular circumstance, sure, one guy could have gone up there on a scooter and helped pick the bike up.
A simple rescue of an uninjured person WOULD become an emergency, requiring medical attention and a much worse outcome if it had waited till the morning.
Under current circumstances, one could certainly argue that emergency responders need to be available for COVID-related medical response and people are NOT supposed to be leaving home. That may mean the OP was ill-advised but calling him a "spineless, febble namby panby" says more about you than it does about him.
I hope you don't ever find yourself stuck on a mountain with the temperature falling but if you do, you had better lay there until you have gangrene in your foot and are dangerously dehydrated and hyperthermic before wasting anybody's time calling for help.
I was riding my Versys 650 home in a sudden snowstorm that had wet heavy snowflakes. I made it home ok but I spun out in the grass leading to the shed and ended up with my right leg pinned under the bike. It took a few minutes to get up, fortunately, the ground was still soft!
Can you not READ ? ? ?
I agree calling for help from non-emergency services with his in reach was the correct move if had done that.
Going directly to emergency 911 was a miss-use of the system
He was NOT INJURED
He was NOT IN LIFE THREATENING situation
He HAD 2 way text communication to request non emergency help
Emergency services in rural areas are limited ... he abused the system cause he panicked ... non emergency services would have responded in a timely fashion. ..and if they failed him ....then use 911
Let me see: Trapped under a vehicle on a mountainside with night coming, getting colder (who knows, up there at this time of year, it could have rained.) How is that NOT potentially life-threatening? Uninjured is rather hard to fully assess when you're trapped, plus he thought be might lose circulation. Also, if the emergency services over-reacted when he told them he was un-injured and chose to send a fire truck and ambulance, rather than just one guy to lift the bike off him, how is that the OP's problem?
I'd give him crap for being up there alone in the first place but not for calling for help. Understand your point about panicking but when was the last time YOU were trapped under a bike in a remote area, tough guy?
DR650 wet weight isn't that much over 350#. Get loaded luggage on those bikes though and I expect they're all heavy. Not so bad maybe if you're not pinned under the bike and can remove luggage before you try to lift it.
When I have my luggage on my africa twin, it's hard to even lift it off the side stand if I'm parked on a slope going down to the left (side stand lower than tires). More than once I've rolled the bike into a more promising position before mounting.
And more than once I've thought a DR650 might be a better adventure choice. Never while riding on the freeway, oddly enough.
As a former DR650 owner I can testify that it's a big, heavy pig.
But a featherweight compared to the big adventure bikes.