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Discussion in 'Trials' started by Garthe, Nov 2, 2014.
Do I have to wear stretchy pants to ride trials? Do they come in XXL?
No and I hope not.
Let's try this one again, since there was only one (semi)answer:
Changing the rear tire is quite simple and straight forward. Trials tires are so flexible, easy on easy off. In fact most trials tires fronts can be installed by hand. The hard part on a tubeless is breaking the bead. I have always had a tire machine (Manual) so this was easy. I have seen people use wooden blocks, and some are quite good using just a crow bar. You can buy a hand held breaker for cheap. The biggest thing for a tubeless is tie prep days before, or preferably weeks before. The bead needs to be stretched out to at least rim size and set in a warm/hot location so it retains the correct shape. The easiest way to do this is with a 400/18 tube. Simple. If you do not do this, getting it to bead is a bitch. You can buy a donut (Rubber ring) to take up the space. But why spend money for something that just makes the job harder?
Now the dangerous part is actually airing the tire up to bead. Some tires take 100lbs to bead properly. This is not good. Buy an air chuck that locks on the stem. I set mine out of the garage door and wait till it pops. I`ve never had a trials tire explode, but I have seen an ATV tire explode. You want to safely do this. PS, do lube the tire well before beading.
Did my first tubeless tire the other day. I've changed many MX tires before.
I don't have a bead breaker. Used the tire irons to push down the sidewalland squirted wf40 all the way around :eek1. Wheel sat on a bucket. 20 mins later went back and the bead came off. Use the tire irons to pry the bead away from the rim.
Secret to getting a tire off and on is to continually go round it to ensure that the beads, top and bottom are squeezed together in the center of the rim (where the spokes are) as this is the lowest part. put another way, the beads should just about be touching each other as much as possible - keep squeezing the tire with your hands to check this is the case. This makes a dramatic difference to the amount of leverage you need with the tyre irons to get the tire on. next trick is to use the irons close together to take little 'bites' out of the tire to get it on, rather than trying leverage a couple of inches at a time.
Thoroughly cleaned rim to remove said wd40 along with any grime. Could have done the old hairdryer in the tyre trick but the sidewalls seems so plyable on these tyres I couldn't be arsed.
Put a coating of car wash soap/ liquid on the outside AND inside of all beads, as well as the rim. Removed valve stem. Got my my air compressor fully charged. Here's my trick: bounced the wheel on the ground hard while filling with air till to force the tire out and seal to the rim and it eventually caught and filled up! fill up a bit then put the valve stem in and fill properly.
I think 80 psi is enough to seal the bead. Mine did not seal at 80 But I could see ever so slow movement so I just left her for a bit. Makes a hell of a noise when it beads!
Thanks guys, sounds like a 'blast' (pun intended)......
Yes, thank you for posting the rear tire info!
Take your 500 into the kitchen. Now Rev it to the limiter and see if you can make it to the living room. This shold answer your question about trials bike sizes.
That sounds a little cranky, now that I am drinking.
I run an XR650R for everything but trials, even, and especially, trail riding. I use, maybe, 10% of the horsepower and torque available. It is a beast to ride trail on, heavy, slow steering, clutch of doom for cramping, heavy, inclined to stall in the really tight stuff, HOT and prone to overheating below about 10mph, and 375lbs with a full belly of fuel. When I pop out onto the haul road to the house, it runs right up to 80 without complaint, topped it out in the Tule Desert at 95 on dirt, with touring kit. Best high speed wind it to the limiter bike I have ever ridden.
It is a horrible analogy to trials.
I run a 300GG, partly due to our 7000ft home elevation, mostly because I too am inclined to have as much bike as I can. I ride Expert, and train in an area of enormous ups on sticky sandstone. On a good day, riding with verve, I can probably get 85% of what the bike is capable of, delivered to the ground. I doubt Ill ever get to 100, my balls aren't that big. It is 150lbs, cool, quiet, and you can bunny hop it. The only times I have ever felt my 300 wasnt enough bike are at very high altitude (Ute Cup 10k-13k) and trail riding. But, the suspension can't handle much more speed anyway, so look at the scenery. The bike is gutless in sections at altitude, but mostly sluggish, it will make plenty for expert ups. Ridden with enthusiasm, they are a damn fast if energy intensive trail bike.(you have to bunny hop/unweight anything over about 3" at speed)
So buy a 300 and ride the piss out of it. They are a fistful at low elevation.
Think I'll get a high-comp piston and hot cam for the XR. Whats the worst that can happen?
I use carpenters bar clamps to press the bead off:
With rim horizontal on something (I use a stainless beer keg with the top cut out)
Stick the lower jaw through the spokes, hook it on far side rim. Press screw head down tight against bead at the close rim. Use the screw handle to press the bead off. I usually use two at a time. Had to learn the trick for dealing with some dual sport tires. Once the trials tire is off the bead you can often get it off the rim with no tools. They are very soft rubber.
I use a 20" bike tube packed in the upper bead for seating the tire. I also will run a ratchet strap around the outside of the tire if its fighting back. I lube everything with Simple Green.
I came across the same issue with my DR650. I've opted for an XR250R that happens to be street-legal. If you decide the BRP is just too big/heavy, see if you can find a street-legal XR400R or DRZ400. They should do the same stuff as the BRP with a little less heft. You could even consider a 1998-99 DR350SE. I had one of those and would take it back, in a heartbeat.
This is helpful, too. I would suggest you not use Simple Green anymore. It's not for use on alloy metals. I used to use it to clean the alloy wheels on my cars/trucks. Someone suggested I read the label. YMMV.
Another noob question... before my bike is fully warmed up the clutch drags quite a bit (97 Beta Techno). Let's put it this way, you better be holding on to the brake when you put it in gear or you make a nice scene in the parking lot. It seems to go away when the bike warms up though... I have the clutch adjusted so that the plunger goes all the way in on the lever (aka it doesn't need adjustment at the lever).
A. Is this normal for trials bikes?
B. If it's not normal, what do I need to do to fix it?
It was normal on the Techno. If you have the plunger all the way in the piston is not traveling far enough to work properly. You could do the clutch `fix`, but I had many a Beta and never was an issue.
My Rev3 is the same, I have found that if you rev it up a couple of times with the clutch in during warm up it speeds up the process and you can drive off without snapping your neck back.
I know the BRP is too heavy. I just take a masochistic pleasure in insisting on riding it like a trials bike, with some success. Had a two point section down Upper Moto Trail on our mountain. Its 2 miles long, any 100' of which would make a good intermediate section. It is great cross-training for trials. I occasionally get to ride home from work via our trail network, its a great way to end a day.
Those little 4 strokes are fun, and easy to ride on trail, but they don't cruise at 70 very well. I appreciate the broad utility of a big bore bike, and I sympathize with his love for obnoxiously powerful dirt bikes. But you don't need it in trials, and much more torque than the 300 trials bikes would not necessarily be useful. Power usually comes with weight. The 300s are amazing for power per pound, far better than any of the dirt bikes mentioned.
And I can ride my trials bike around inside my house. But not much above idle.
Lineaway has probably right answer for that particular bike?
It can be several things, BUT It is NOT normal for almost all of the newer trials bikes I have, except really not been used in a while bikes (non PRO model gasgas trials bikes). could be materials used in clutches have changed over time...
as far as I know, on other threads elsewhere some have asked what oils used, how often you change it, and sometimes how much (ounces or ml) you used (this last one in gasgas bikes, and affects drag when clutch is pulled in, bike trys to keep going, just slightly affects it though.
I don't know much about Beta, but my OLD 93 gasgas did this a couple times if it sat unused for more than say, 60 days... but once the "vacuum" or sticking breaks free (almost always soon as you pull clutch, bike is running/rolling and you touch rear brake... Some seem to imply maybe the oil seems to make the plates to stick together more in some bikes, and have after being squeezed for several days they are stuck together like paper can when you spill your pop on it, then let it dry? Some oils have more waxy stuff in them than others.
Seems I think my 82-84 fantic wants to do this when not ridden for a while.
My Sherco does this. I try and put it in gear (when off) and push it forward to break the pressure/seal...
Best way I have found is to ride it every week
Old Shercos have the same problem. Trials clutches are built to completely
different requirements than an enduro or mx clutch.
RYP told me the proper procedure is...
1 - put it in top gear and rock it back and forth to break the clutch loose.
2 - start the bike, pull the clutch in, with the front brake on.
3 - ride the bike for a few minutes with the clutch in.
With in 3 minutes my 02/290 acts like a normal bike.
That bit about putting a rubber band around the clutch handle over night
2002 Sherco 2.9. I need to split the cases to replace the main bearings.
Even though I ordered and received a flywheel puller in the past month,
it has grown legs and walked away. I could order one today, but it would be
another week before it got here.
Most Sherco pullers are 30x1.5mm. Yes most Betas and some other
Spanish bikes use the same.
Q. Are there any Jap (Suz, Yam, Hon, Kaw) bikes that use the same size puller.?