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Tablets for GPS

Discussion in 'GPS 101 - Which GPS For Me' started by trganey, Feb 19, 2015.

  1. Vic5491

    Vic5491 Been here awhile

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    BTW, when you use ITN Converter, which map set do you use? I have been using the default set of maps. Since CoPilot is (I think) based on OpenStreetMaps, maybe I should be using their maps. Do you know if this matters or not?
    #41
  2. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

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    I'm pretty sure copilot is not based on open Street maps. If it was, it would be so much better than it is. My main problem with Copilot is shitty maps once you get way out on country roads and no easy way to fix errors found.

    It's great for blue road routing, but when you get down to dirt roads or way back roads there are a lot of errors.
    #42
  3. Vic5491

    Vic5491 Been here awhile

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    Just did a search and found that CoPilot is supposedly built on Navteq maps which is what Garmin and HERE use. Any idea on why CoPilot would not be as accurate as Garmin if this is the case?
    #43
  4. juno

    juno Long timer

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    Any good on and off road apps for a windows 8 or 10 tablet?
    #44
  5. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

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    I think Copilot used to be built on Navteq Maps. Now it uses maps provided by ALK, which appears to be its own mapping company.

    http://www.alk.com/

    http://www.alkmaps.com/data.aspx

    My opinion is that ALK primarily provides services for truck transporters. Because of that, the roads that I am interested in are roads that trucks would never be down and therefor they aren't interested in correcting them.

    Here's an example..

    Capture.JPG

    There is no break in Woodson Road. These two peices connect. This road is broken in several places so there is no way to route over it. It is a pretty out of the way road, but one I ride all the time. It's gravel along parts of it, but it is very well groomed and passable by just about any vehicle (aside from Tractor Trailers)

    To be honest, the first time I routed over this road using OSMand it was broken in a few spots as well. I logged on to Open Street Maps and fixed the breaks and now the road is fully routable.
    #45
  6. Vic5491

    Vic5491 Been here awhile

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    Your example is EXACTLY the kind of map failures that I run into when using Copilot. I lay out a route for a day that is 250 miles on ITN Converter when planning and yet it becomes 263 when I convert the file to a TRP and load it into Copilot. When I dig deep into the route to find out why it is longer, I inevitably find rerouting around broken roads that are not in actuality broken at all. And this is not always way out in the boonies on county level or Farm to Market level roads. There is a scenic road that follows along beside a river near my home that is fairly heavily traveled with lots of uber expensive homes along the way that has a small chunck out of it. As a result, Copilot routes you all kinds of crazy ways to avoid that little piece of missing map.

    Sygic is better but if you put a waypoint slightly off of the road, when you go by that waypoint it does not register as having been passed. Sygic does not have Automatic Rerouting so if you miss a waypoint, it wants you to go back and pick it up. And if you don't notice it right away, it thinks you have missed all of the waypoints you have passed since them. To get Sygic working properly when using a tablet, you have to take a glove off and go through a tedius and dangerously distracting process unless you stop, systematically telling the system that each waypoint, one by one, should be deleted.

    Surely something is better than either of these!
    #46
  7. DaMonk45

    DaMonk45 I B Da Monk

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    I like co pilot and use it quite often if I am just going point to point.
    It has given me enough goofy routes that I dont import them any more.
    It is easier for me to use osmand.
    #47
  8. lkraus

    lkraus Long timer

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    Using CoPilot on my phone, I've had good results using Tyre (Basic-Free) for road trip planning. The current version will now save direct to the .trp format needed for CoPilot, along with .gpx, .kml, .itn and most other common formats, so I no longer need ITNConverter. Through trial and error, I eliminated the "goofiest" routing. There are several good video tutorials from RoadRunner magazine that illustrate the main points, especially the "Best Practices" titles. Still, you should double check the routes on the phone and correct as necessary. Different maps and different programs are certain to result in at least slightly different routes. CoPilot's "Drag Route" helps a lot with any fine tuning needed.

    Obviously, if CoPilot's maps don't show a road, it can't route you down it. So far I've not run into that problem, but at least there is some way to let ALK know they have an error. Main Menu>MyCopilot>Submit a Map improvement. At one time they were commited to corrections within 45 days, but I do not recall ever getting updates that often.
    #48
  9. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

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    I have used this feature a few times over the last 8 months or so. Have yet to see a road fixed. It's also a super clunky interface, wish there was a better way to point out 6 breaks in a road, or a trail that they show as a road etc...
    #49
  10. markbvt

    markbvt Long timer

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    I'm a bit late to the party here but will chime in from an iOS perspective. On iPads and iPhones, the GPS chip is an integral part of the cellular chipset, so Wifi-only iPads and the iPod Touch don't have GPS. But that said, GPS can easily be added to these models (for less than the premium paid for the cellular-enabled iPad) using a Bluetooth module such as the Garmin GLO or a plug-in one such as Bad-Elf's Lightning module. These units are very popular in aviation, even for use with iPads and iPhones that do have built-in GPS, because they're far more sensitive and less error-prone. For example, the GPS receiver in a cellular iPad or iPhone updates once per second and easily loses signal in low-reception situations, and it has problems at high speeds and high altitudes (not an issue on a bike, of course, but definitely is in a plane); the Bluetooth/plug-in receivers update 10 times per second and are capable of much higher precision.

    I've used CoPilot Premium on my iPhone for long car trips, and it works well for that purpose. But on the bike, I've been using a Garmin Oregon 300 and now a Montana 600, because as of yet I haven't found any smartphone/tablet apps that even come close to the same feature set. Unfortunately all of the Garmin units suffer from a small, low-resolution screen (yes, even the Zumo 590). I've just ordered a Garmin GLO module that I'm going to use in conjunction with my iPad mini 4 over the winter to experiment with different GPS options (including an aviation GPS app -- obviously won't do road routing, but it should provide an interesting big-picture map overview well suited to the iPad's screen size/resolution).

    I'll report back here if I come up with anything interesting.

    --mark
    #50
  11. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

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    I don't think there is 1 app that offers the same feature set, but a combination of apps that combined offer a better feature set. It's a matter of learning which apps you need for which situations.

    I think my favorite "Do All" app is OSmand. It does offroad track following, and on road turn by turn route creation pretty well. If I am doing strickly offroad route following I'd use Locus all day long, and if I was doing strickly "blue road" navigation I'd use Co-Pilot and if I need simple Point A to point B navigation I use Here Maps.
    #51
  12. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    updating ten times a second instead of once means ten times the calculation, doesn't it? I would imagine heat and battery life would be impacted with that much computing going on?
    #52
  13. markbvt

    markbvt Long timer

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    That's a good question, but as I understand it, the heavy lifting goes on within the GPS module itself.

    I'm not concerned with battery life because I'll always run the iPad off external power. Heat could be problematic though.

    --mark
    #53
  14. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    OK, help me out again please, how do you power the iPad with the GPS plugged into the changing port?

    I hadn't thought about the GPS dongle being separate hardware, extremely efficient, and only concerned with one process. that makes sense.
    #54
  15. EmmEff

    EmmEff Long timer

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    The Garmin GLO is a Bluetooth GPS. The Bad Elf Lightning GPS has a micro USB cable for charging.
    #55
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  16. markbvt

    markbvt Long timer

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    ^^^ What MF said. The GLO is a small Bluetooth module that can be easily stashed in a tank bag pocket and charged overnight (it reportedly runs for 12 hours before needing a charge), and the iPad meanwhile can be plugged in via Lightning cable. The Bad-Elf module doesn't need charging as it's powered by the iPad directly, and it has the micro USB port for pass-through iPad charging, but I decided to go with the GLO instead because finding a case/mount for the iPad that would accommodate the Bad-Elf module would be a lot trickier.

    Over the weekend I played around with the GLO and my iPad mini a bit. The faster update rate on the GLO results in fairly smooth motion in CoPilot, which is nice. Also, the higher sensitivity means it easily acquires satellites even inside my house.

    I also played around a bit with the Garmin Pilot app. Awesome. It boggles my mind that Garmin can create such a great iPad app for aviation, yet they seem utterly unwilling to pass some of that technology and feature set down to their road app.

    --mark
    #56
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  17. regnaDkciN

    regnaDkciN bearing 60k, clutch 69,HyperPros 70, ABS 128k Supporter

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    Since I'm already invested in iOS, also, and kind of sick of Garmin's UI and map pricing....going to give the Air 2 a try. 1st in the car, then the GSXA. what i'd like to do is plug the Garmin satellite receiver element into the Air2? (jim,,,finish the article before posting,... see Garmin GLO)
    #57
  18. markbvt

    markbvt Long timer

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    I actually highly recommend the newest iPad Mini. Screen resolution is the same as the Air, but the whole unit is a lot more compact and therefore more easily handled/mounted.

    I haven't had a chance to play around with mine on the motorcycle yet (because, well, it's winter), but I've used it in my car driving down to Virginia to visit the parents for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Both times I used CoPilot and zoomed the screen out to the point that I could see a large section of the surrounding area without losing the road detail, which makes it almost like using a scrolling paper map. Very nice, though CoPilot is a more limited app than I would like. Still need to play around with alternatives and see if I can find something that comes close to the feature set of my Montana while displaying a hi-res, detailed map on screen.

    By the way, if you figure out a way to plug that Garmin receiver into your iPad, be sure to post about it.

    --mark
    #58
  19. EmmEff

    EmmEff Long timer

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    markbvt, have you tried Pocket Earth? I am liking this one. I just wish it could navigate a track. It will import and display tracks as almost all apps do, however it does not give turn-by-turn navigation of the track. Of course, this is something most apps do not do, but is a useful feature to me.
    #59
  20. regnaDkciN

    regnaDkciN bearing 60k, clutch 69,HyperPros 70, ABS 128k Supporter

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    I was up on Blood Mountan (GA) and WAZE went off line. My Garmin is old but the antenna still works great. plugging that into IOS would be workable. But, since my iPad Air 2 has gps....wth?
    #60