For waterproof over-gloves, I cheaped out and the second time I put them on, my thumb blew through the seam. I stepped up to another pair for around $50 and they work great. Dianese, maybe? I use Mechanix gloves for summer dirt riding and they slip right over. The long gauntlet has a drawstring to seal to the jacket. Pack down small and are also good for cool mornings. No need for a second, heavy pair of gloves. Another lesson in "you get what you pay for".