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TAT routes/tracks

Discussion in 'GPS Tracks - Northeast, Southeast & Florida' started by txbikerinpa, Mar 8, 2006.

  1. txbikerinpa

    txbikerinpa Retired & loving it

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2004
    Oddometer:
    19
    Location:
    Lancaster, PA watch out for Amish horse apples
    I am planning on the TAT this summer. I have the roll charts for the TAT but would like to have the garmin GPS tracks. Does anyone have them (all or portions) they would be willing to share.
    TIA
    Chuck
    #1
  2. BigDogAdventures

    BigDogAdventures Fart Letter Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2003
    Oddometer:
    7,347
    Location:
    Mt. Vernon, Illinois
    Chuck-----In a way it's a shame that Sam just doesn't provide GPs info for his ride. It's just so much easier to navigate. I've got all of Sam's maps and have ridden many states and parts of it in Ky. that he hasn't made public yet. Sam's maps for the Eastern sections provide coordinates at crucial turns-------his western section maps don't. I think when he rode the Western part he maybe didn't even have a GPS--or just didn't record it and plot waypoints.

    I've got all the GPS info for the whole thing from Ky. to Oregon---but.

    Here is something for all of us that have rode it and want to ride it to think about is........if somebody posts his routes publicly for all to download to our GPS's---what's going to happen to Sam's routes and maps ????

    It just seems to me it will be the end of an era and leave Sam out in the cold----as if we don't need him anymore. His hard work and dedication to providing these routes is something to charish---I for one am so glad he has shared his ride. Something for all to think about. I love his maps and rollcharts---but do admit I leave them at home when I ride his routes.

    If you've seen Sam's maps and rollcharts I'm sure you've realized this man has made no money doing this----so much work. I think he said it himself--he just enjoys sharing it.

    And------since you have paid for his maps I see nothing wrong with you having the GPS info---I'd still hate to see the day his routes get out for all to download and I guess somebody will do it someday. There is no way to control that.

    Kind of a dilemma here :huh
    #2
  3. 9Dave

    9Dave Bazinga!

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Oddometer:
    13,560
    Location:
    Central Ohio
    Bigdog - I am planning to buy TN and ride that this summer, and thought the same thing about the GPS tracks.

    Kind of funny what happens when technology changes the playing field entirely. Like when the printing press came along and all those monks hand lettering and passing along knowledge must have looked up one day from lettering and exclaimed "WTF!"

    Maybe you could work something out where you "donated" the tracks to Sam, and Sam would include them as part of the rollchart/map package?

    Just a thought.

    Dave
    #3
  4. birdawg

    birdawg Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Oddometer:
    382
    Location:
    West Tennessee
    I rode part of the TAT last week with some other people. I sent Sam the money for the Tn and Miss. section as an appreciation of his hard work. I think most everyone else there had his maps as well. One of the guys was GPSing it and we ended up taking some routes that were not on Sams maps but got back on course pretty quickly.
    If he offered a download for each state someone wanted using Paypal I do believe there would be a fair amount of honest folk that would pay.
    #4
  5. Scott Davis

    Scott Davis Which way did they go?

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Oddometer:
    657
    Location:
    Concord, NC
    I also agree that Sam should be helped to provide downloaded routes. I made mine from mapping software and following the TAT maps that I purchased from Sam. It would have saved me weeks of work, just to download it all. I think in the long run Sam would make more $, and find updating would be much quicker.

    We had a hard time following the maps and roll charts.


    Check out photo's of our trip in the Gallery here.

    Scott :eek1
    #5
  6. kyryder

    kyryder Adventure Rider

    Joined:
    May 20, 2006
    Oddometer:
    4
    Just did the MS/AR section and Sam's rollcharts where right on. The rollcharts where so good I never had to get the maps out.

    check out the photos here
    #6
  7. David_S

    David_S Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2003
    Oddometer:
    1,130
    Location:
    Sullivan, Ohio
    I've only ridden a small section of the TN route. But.. it really isn't that big of a deal to buy the maps from Sam and then convert them over yourself. Just lay them out next to your computer, put on your reading glasses and have at it. I was able to do TN in about an hour just looking at the maps and clicking away in mapsource.

    DS
    #7
  8. KTMJunkie

    KTMJunkie n00b

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1

    That may be true if you are planning on doing only the eastern states. I’ve bought the maps, created gps tracks and have ridden “the trail” all the way to Port Orford OR. I can tell you with certainty that there is NO WAY anyone can stay true to the complete original trail west of Colorado via the maps and rollcharts provided. This route was made many years ago, the rollcharts were developed with multiple types of bikes with constantly changing front tire diameters and thus odometer readings. Being off a tenth of a mile per 10 miles is nothing in Arkansas, but when you get further west those tenths add up over the barren hundreds of miles. Add the overgrowth that has occurred on many of the most desolate trail sections in Utah and Nevada and you’ll quickly realize that a lot of time is going to have to be wasted solving the same navigation problems that have occurred to all those that completed it before you.

    Look at the two guys that just wrote a trip report about the OK to OR sections with no maps and only one GPS with a pre-made route installed. I’ll bet in Oregon alone they had over a hundred miles of diversions. Had snow and sightseeing not taken them off route they would have found several roads on the maps that were completely destroyed by the State as a firebreak or when loggers no longer needed them. Route accuracy is not the only issue as I know of several crucial places where the maps show gas available and there is none. Things change and the information about all of these changes is known and should be shared. At the very least it should be included if you pay the price for maps and roll charts advertised as being all you will need to make a cross country trip.
    #8
  9. gaspipe

    gaspipe Wandering Soul

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2004
    Oddometer:
    11,438
    Location:
    Pickwick Lake, Tennessippi
    Having a GPS is IHMO, a critical item in handling the western states. We found plenty of roads that just cease to be, impassible snow, etc. The GPS that had the 6 vs 7 map issue (mine) was still navigable to a certain degree, but the good thing is it still did have the CS data needed to find a way to circumnavigate the problems and get back on track with minimal trouble. All of our diversions were small and quick (except for the sightseeing parts), but would have been nearly impossible to do without the GPS. The logging forests in Oregon were the trickiest to get around, more frustrating than difficult, due the emergence of new roads and the destruction of old ones.

    There are places that don't have gas, but there are a lot of places that DO have gas - and motels and food, that apparently didn't when the route was made. We made some phone calls to local chambers of commerce and did some internet snooping and added enough fuel and motel stops that the 150 range of the Husky really became a non-issue.

    Anyway, the Western TAT info the way Sam sells it now, it IMHO, really just a "kit" - you have to finish the route, as I just don't see how a rollchart would get you by now. I admit that I do not think I could do it successfully. Buy the maps, buy R&R and Topo, as well as CS, and spend some nights programming. Expect to have to divert.

    It's still lots of fun.

    #9
  10. wiese

    wiese ADVtraveler

    Joined:
    May 20, 2006
    Oddometer:
    30
    First and foremost I would like to say, thanks Gaspipe and Bigdog for sharing your trip report. (not a true highjack)

    Secondly I would like to say I have never rode the TAT but will be soon enough and have been talking/emailing to Sam.

    Third this is going to be kind of a long story (fair warning) but IMHO this will be by far the BEST SOLUTION, but this is up for Sam to decide.

    Last year I hiked the Continental Divide Trail (CDT) Mexico to Canada (3100mileISH). The trail is not finished (well 75%ish is unfinished). There are 2 groups (CDTS and CDTA) trying to lobby their ideas for the route. The point is for years, if you where one of the fools that wanted to hike the most amazing trail in NA you bought nearly $1,000 in topos and mapped it out yourself relying on VERY vague descriptions on what the route “should take”.

    In 2001 a guy by the name of Jonathan Ley put it all together mapping out the trail with tons of alternates and variations. He also noted routes that he thought would “go” during his hike and amended his maps. There are few people attempting to thru-hike the trail (no one finished by trail in ’03, 40 people attempted to hike it during ’05, being the biggest year ever, with only around a dozen finishing) BUT EVERYONE IS USING HIS MAPS.

    This is because he doesn’t “sell” the maps but a CD instead. So the cost is put on the back of the user. I paid over 100$ in paper and ink for the full set using my printer at home. This is not counting the donation made to Ley for “purchasing” the CD. The BEST part about the CD is it is updated EVERY year by hikers emailing LEY with new alternates or updates, (example: wells being dismantled (aka no water for the next 40+miles), blowdowns due to fires), etc. I also hike a totally different start than Ley for the first few hundred miles (started at Columbus instead of Antelope Wells because it is the proposed CDTS route which is more scenic). This is the beauty of Ley’s maps. He gives you all the information possible to hike your own hike and do it any way you wish taking any path you wish.

    For more info, check out his site:
    http://www.phlumf.com/cdt/cdtmaps.htm

    or

    http://www.phlumf.com/



    Take care

    WIESE
    #10
  11. alpiv

    alpiv Sr. nOOb

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Oddometer:
    2,183
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    I agree with Bigdog.
    I have had the opportunity to ride with Sam on this years SpringTAT.
    He has spent the last 18yrs working this route and enjoying every trip.

    To that, I would also say I agree with Gaspipe, do the work..
    I spend each winter before the SpringTAT compiling the route for the ride.
    Yes, it is time consuming, yet I enjoy it and it gives me a good understanding of what I am in for.

    There is more then enough free or cheap software out there that one could compile a full route from Sam's maps and Route sheets.

    I compiled mine this year with software that only costs about $30/year . ExpertGPS

    It will allow you to layout routes and convert those routes to tracks, view Topo maps and images.. Can't upload the Maps, yet it will upload and download to about all of the gps unit out there.
    #11
  12. mars

    mars Starbucks anyone?

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2002
    Oddometer:
    2,086
    Location:
    El Reno,ok
    Its sad, but there are lots of people that would pirate his routes if given a chance.

    I guess its some sort of game to some. I bought the Bici maps of Mexico and a number of people emailed me, not just wanting the source to purchase them, but wanting me to send them the maps.
    #12
  13. R_W

    R_W wannabe

    Joined:
    May 3, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,126
    Location:
    Kansas
    You have to do your homework. It is a big part of the fun/accomplishment, kinda like foreplay for a ride:evil
    #13
  14. endurorazor

    endurorazor Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Oddometer:
    87
    Location:
    Vermont
    I have the Garmin track and route files and my original maps/rollcharts from a 2005 trip on the TAT that I will to sell to anyone, Cheap!! Offer enough and I’ll include it in Google Earth format with notes.

    ONLY KIDDING, don’t email or PM or anything else as I will completely ignore you.

    For the record I paid my homage ($) to the 18 year mapping effort, did “the work” and rode a big chunk of it last year. After completing the journey I emailed my garmin track and route files from OK to OR back to Sam Correro. Which leads me to my suggestion.

    For those that have completed it, pay your respects for his effort by sending your track files by state with relevant notes, changes, problem areas…etc. to the email address from his website - sam@transamtrail.com. I know I would have paid extra for an addendum sheet with update notes on it. With minimal effort the route could be transformed into a format more favored by today’s riders while allowing the author to control who gets an electronic version of his intellectual property.

    For those that are: interested in riding the trail in the future; don’t like foreplay or are too lazy or incompetent to make a route on your GPS; are actually interested in what changes to expect since the maps were created; don’t want to spend another $150 for autorouting software via City Select; are willing to buy additional and current detail about the trail to go with your already purchased maps, then send an email to sam@transamtrail.com and offer to pay extra if he could include a gps based route file for each state or if he could offer any updates / notes from recent riders.
    #14
  15. caver

    caver Missouri The Cave State

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2003
    Oddometer:
    753
    Location:
    Southeast Missouri
    I was sort of flamed on the springTAT forum for just trying to sell my used
    maps. To sweeten the deal I said I would give the buyer my GPS data. So I went back to Sam's website and it said The cost of my roll chart/odometer system of navigation and a set of supporting maps, is meant only to cover my cost of production and the UPS fees. Mostly, I just want to share this adventure. hmmmmmm :huh yep, he's not trying to make a buck off it and neither was I.
    The Arkansas maps are quite a bit cheaper now than what I paid and I was just wanted to also share the experience. He had some bad or no gps data for parts of AR. I did e-mail him the corrections but not sure if the corrections are there.
    I spent hours entering turn by turn in Mapsource for the provided waypoints
    and then creating the missing ones myself. I think I did suggest to him of offering GPS data but I don't recall getting a response. Pretty impressive though what Sam did over the years,,,probably without GPS much of the time.
    One thing about doing it GPS vs roll chart,,,,,you can sit back and enjoy the ride and not worry about whether you just reset trip odometer etc.
    #15
  16. MookieBlaylock

    MookieBlaylock Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Oddometer:
    2,584
    Location:
    IntheeaglewingpalaceoftheQueenChinee
    lazy incompetent -whatever. If i were to do the nevada part i would want every possible advantage because it sounds like you can screw up preety ez and end up in 105 degree desert with no fuel and no clue.
    #16
  17. Ed@Ford

    Ed@Ford Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2004
    Oddometer:
    3,775
    Location:
    Dearborn MI
    In this thread you mentioned:
    " The GPS that had the 6 vs 7 map issue ".
    I don't understand what you're getting at. The 6.10 version of Mapsource allows you to actually draw a track. This should have been of value in transferring Sam's data to Mapsource. I don't think the version 7 is out. I further assume you are using an old version of US Roads & Recreation Maps (which I prefer because it IS old, and not a memory hog), which is no longer available, which I don't think got up to version 6 or 7. OR are you referring to an issue with a 276C...which so far, to me, gets along OK with 276C.

    I appreciate your opinions in not sharing TAT tracks. It's a tough dilemma, especially in that some of the route sheets (NV) would be pretty worthless.
    #17
  18. alpiv

    alpiv Sr. nOOb

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Oddometer:
    2,183
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    That is why it is called an Adventure -- if you do the work ahead of time and prepare correctly, you will be ready for anything..

    Life is not worth living without some sort of risk....
    #18
  19. gaspipe

    gaspipe Wandering Soul

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2004
    Oddometer:
    11,438
    Location:
    Pickwick Lake, Tennessippi
    Stuff routed and mapped in version 6 doesn't work correctly when using version 7 maps. All the maps have to be reloaded with 6 maps. It's that simple.
    #19
  20. endurorazor

    endurorazor Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Oddometer:
    87
    Location:
    Vermont


    Now I have to ask what you mean by “doing the work ahead of time”. Winter calls to the local chambers of commerce or months of computer map geeking isn’t going to help you when you’re 50 miles from the nearest human in Nevada and the trail disappeared 5 years ago. Okay maybe you can double-check your odometer because your TAT roll chart says “follow the cow trail XX.X miles”. Oh and if your GPS doesn’t show alternative roads nearby you can still use your TAT maps that were based on USGS surveys done before you were born.

    Been there and done that and I have to side completely with RexHarrison. If you are ever about to tackle the Nevada section and you have the possibility of looking over other peoples track files to complement your preferred source of navigation, you would be crazy not to. Although 95% of the TAT that I rode from OK to OR could have been done in a Yugo, there certainly were several times when I wished I had that information.
    #20