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TAT routes/tracks

Discussion in 'GPS Tracks - Northeast, Southeast & Florida' started by txbikerinpa, Mar 8, 2006.

  1. alpiv

    alpiv Sr. nOOb

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    I would agree, hindsight is great.

    Don't get me wrong, I can see your points.

    My main point to not leave Sam out -- Stealing his information that he has worked so hard to put together.
    #21
  2. nobrakes

    nobrakes Long timer

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    Not pirate, but contribute. Just think how much better and more accurate the whole thing _could_ be with the collective efforts of dozens or even hundreds of people. If the data were opened up, tracks could be revised and corrected over time. Even expanded. I could envision a much larger network of trails similar to the Interstate system, only off-road, that cover all the easter states as well. Sam's TAT could be a great start for that and if the GPS tracks were opened up and freely shared, the contributions from others could make it so much better than any one person could hope to do themselves.

    This is how things work with open source software - Linux, Unix, etc. It's a shared collabortion, each person contributing what they can, the whole being far greater than what any individual person could do by themselves. An open source trail system sounds really great - the country belongs to everyone, after all.

    Edit: I should also mention my view that anything based on or derived directly from Sam's TAT should most definitely NOT be released without Sam's permission. That'd be wrong, of course. While the TAT would be a great starting point for a public and joint trail map venture, it would not be necessary. Such a project would need a champion to get it rolling though, and the TAT would be a logical starting point. I'd love to see a collective effort like that take off and see it expand and evolve over time to cover a large portion of the U.S. or even world. How cool would it be to contribute sections to the effort and to know that all the other sections are contributed and maintained and reasonably accurate. Sections would be updated in near real time as people travel the "trail". New sections would be appearing all the time. And with enough coverage that sections would be accessible to folks all over the country without having to travel hundreds of miles just to get to a starting point. Just some random thoughts.
    #22
  3. used2jeep

    used2jeep Long timer

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    nobrakes - It sounds as if you are thinking of a continental map system of all dirt roads in the US. Or am I just way off base?
    #23
  4. nobrakes

    nobrakes Long timer

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    Yes, exactly. But the important point is that I'd like to see it publicly available in electronic format such as .gpx tracks (which can be overlaid onto Google Earth or similar), and publicly updateable and extendable. Perhaps an organizational effort something like Wikipedia http://www.wikipedia.com, but for off-road / dirt road riding maps.
    #24
  5. caver

    caver Missouri The Cave State

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    I talked about such a thing in this thread earlier this year.
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113163
    I may start on Eastern Missouri before vacation this summer.
    I also had an idea for getting across Utah that i could probably do using just mapping software.
    #25
  6. nobrakes

    nobrakes Long timer

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    Seems like there is interest. Sounds like what is needed is a database to tie it all together where folks can upload and share. The GPSXchange.com site looks like a feeble attempt at it, but it's just a regular forum of shared files. That's better than nothing, but still isolates all the tracks and points into seperate individual entities that are opaque to browsing. What we need is something more suitable and more intuitive - something with a map interface like Google Earth / Google Maps for display that shows all the routes and waypoints across the continent and you click and zoom and pan to find what you are looking for. And something like an enhanced Wiki so that folks can upload to it, connect segments, update segments, etc.

    For example, it'd be nice to be able to upload any arbitrary track, and have it integrate into the larger network. There is going to be a good bit if duplication as folks upload tracks that have already been covered, so if the new track overlaps a track that is already there (to within a certain distance to account for GPS error), just toss those track points, but keep new segments that are not already represented. Provide the ability to name a track segment.

    Also, it would be great to provide the ability to create waypoint markers or markers identifying features along a track. For example, if a road becomes gated at some point, it'd be great to know that, so whoever discovers the gate can login when they get back home or otherwise find 'net access and place a gate marker at that point, then everyone else will know about it from that point forward. Or if a gas station closes, or opens, etc - these could all be identified by location and communicated to others on the map.

    So the map would be a continously evolving and being updated. But it would be a single map - not just a large collection of everyone's individual track logs.

    Am I dreaming or is this possible?
    #26
  7. bitterjoe

    bitterjoe killing the fatted calf

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    I think this idea has legs. I would love to have this information and I am sure there must be some kind of software that could do this. Calling computer geeks, any ideas? Maybe simply starting off by generating a list of roads by state based on their classification (Class VI road in NH is unmaintained town roads, Class IV in VT is the same, etc.)? Heck, you could probably purchase a list of roads by classification from one of the many topo map companies (http://www.topozone.com/) or even get it from the state directly. Now, that said, if this is something that is to be discussed perhaps a new thread distancing this idea from the TAT discussion. Maybe a new thread in general "Laying Down Tracks" could get some response?
    #27
  8. bobzilla

    bobzilla Dirty Old Man

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    I want to say from the begining that I am computer dum so if I sound stupid give me a bit of slack
    I live in Northern Nevada and do a lot of adventure stuff with almost no pavement and the tool that I have found the best for me is the old Garmine us roads and rec. It shows roads here tha are just plain overgrown two ruts that are hardly visible and all of the drainages of which many are passable.
    Dont know if you can use that for a starting point for your data base but it is a good start out in the west. I have used it in Or Ca Id Ut and Nv.
    #28
  9. BigDogAdventures

    BigDogAdventures Fart Letter Supporter

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    Bobzilla-------that's what I use mostly------it's so much more detailed than the new autorouting stuff out there. I'll probably go to my grave using that "Old" software.

    When your way out in the bush---you can't beat the old Roads and Recreations.
    #29
  10. buffallodan

    buffallodan Long timer

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    Does the Roads and Recreation software contain info that the new Rec maps do not?
    #30
  11. mars

    mars Starbucks anyone?

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    For me, it's the lack of anything but the roads that makes the old Roads and Rec great. Its hard enough to try and read an LCD in bright daylight with dusty googles on and it would be nice to know about elevation changes but for the most part, it's pretty obvious if there are mountains in front of you.
    #31
  12. hubilado

    hubilado Motoquiero Super Supporter

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    Since the last post here was in August....I wonder if the issue is dead, but if not, it seems to me that NoBrakes introduced a concept that has some merit.

    While looking for information regarding the TAT and exploring the likelihood of generating some usable GPS data before making the TAT trip I came across a BICYCLE group that seems to be doing (for bicyclists) what is being discussed here.

    While I wholeheartedly support the notion that Sam's work should not be bypassed nor ignored, it seems to me that his efforts could be expanded, moved to a more useable and more updateable format while being made available to increased numbers of riders interested in East / West (West / East) moto travel.

    I don't see the need for a formal group or a elaborate network, but rather a core group of commited travelers who would oversee the development and transfer of Sam's work to a digital format using updated input provided by recent travelers and interested parties.

    If financial renumeration for Sam is the roadblock to establishing a more reliable and useable means of Transamerican Moto Travel Navigation, I suggest we consider a way to provide Sam a portion of a fee used to support the expansion of the data.

    Yes, I agree that someone will always be there to pirate the data, or riders would be tempted to "share" files with their friends, but if the data were frequently updated and new routes added / corrected, the product should always have value to those preparing to embark on an adventure of this type.

    I'm not sure there is sufficient interest to further this concept, but if there is why not move forward?
    #32
  13. xtphreak

    xtphreak from B4 "adventure bikes"

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    first

    how much more reliable is a GPS than a map? :huh

    the someone appears to be YOU

    just get off yer a$$ and plot the damned sections you are interested in on the PC, then transfer to yer GPS

    finding out that a trail is closed or something is part of the adventure

    it sounds to me like you want the equivalent of interstate signs on the TAT to keep you safe and secure and on "the track", doG forbid that you might deviate from "the track".

    so how dependent on that GPS are you?

    do a little effort for your ride fer chrizsake
    #33
  14. KevinD

    KevinD Haulin the mail

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    If he does, can he share it with the group? How about for a price?

    A quick Google search came up with this...

    http://www.gpstm.com/index.php

    Are there other ways to make your own maps?
    #34
  15. hubilado

    hubilado Motoquiero Super Supporter

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    It is regrettable that you've found the post so threatening.

    A sense of ownership can sometimes elicit strong emotions.

    No worries mate, maybe we'll see ya on the trail sometime.
    #35
  16. texastattoo

    texastattoo Lottery Retirement Plan

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    Never ceases to amaze me, how tough a guy with 4000 post tries to sound from the safety of his basement, without the worry of a beer bottle being smashed through his face. We all want travel information. That means asking someone how they did it on their trip, or sharing gps files, without stepping on anyones toes, or taking money out of a guys pocket. Bigdog is right about that...but, lighten up for doGs sake. I am certainly a newbie here, but have been putting adventure miles on bikes since 1974. Some of you guys should get a f'kn life. A guy should be able to air an idea or thought without being attacked.

    I would hope that I had never been an asshole to someone I might need help from on the trail someday. And rest assured, you WILL need help on the trail some day. My two cents. Let the "me" bashing begin.
    #36
  17. xtphreak

    xtphreak from B4 "adventure bikes"

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    first I don't think I was too rough in stating my opinion .. I'd suggest you not wander off in JM land

    just to say it straight, my opinion is that having a database of trails and conditions available cheapens the idea of a TAT.

    are we all so dependent on the farkles?

    yes a GPS is another tool for navigation, but damn do you really want to know EVERYTHING you might expect to run into?

    and doG forbid the thing might break ...

    why don't you start a thread in the Layin' down tracks general forum and see if people want to "donate" local information for a section of trail, organize it by states or counties or whatever works, start your own "network" right here..

    again to me it seems too much like instant gratification ...

    TT, if you'd bothered to look, I was the same way when I first logged in here and I don't expect to change ... lighten up

    he asked for opinions on his idea so I told him, just like I would if we were at the Rendezvous or Rebel Yell or BYOB, standing around the fire getting toasted together

    you don't want disenting opinions, then be careful who you ask

    did I call him or anyone anything negative?
    don't think so

    and since I've been riding bikes on trips almost exactly the same span of years as you have, why would you not recognize the simple fact that if you ask me my opinion, I might tell you?

    and as for just asking people for their GPS tracks, I've seen at least a dozen asking BD & GP for their tracks, ain't seen no positive replies to show they're interested.
    some people want it all ... weathermaps on the GPS while soothed by satellite radio ...

    ok no smilies
    no more pissin & whining
    this ain't the place

    sorry my opinion offended anyone


    but it's still my opinion
    #37