Team Kapriony 7.9 FRUSTA BEWARE FOR YOUR BANK ACCOUNT!!!

Discussion in 'Parallel World (790/890)' started by guglemonster, Oct 28, 2019.

  1. braaap!

    braaap! Long timer Supporter

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    :lurk
    #21
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  2. Nowwhat

    Nowwhat I'll Go Second... Super Supporter

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    I work hard for my money you should try it. Very rewarding


    Can not wait for your next riding video
    Spectacular stuff. Fun how you post them on slow motion

    Btw stock suspension is fine for your speed of riding. Maybe less time messing with suspension more time working and taking care of your family
    #22
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  3. chippertheripper

    chippertheripper motorcycle junkie Supporter

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    Winter came early.
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  4. rider911

    rider911 Shortcut Navigator

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    I agree 100%

    I get that Gugle is passionate but he seems to think that gives him the right to portray himself as an expert. Some of us know that he is not.

    After reading that first post I thought to myself, "if Gugle really has had something to do with that bike then my interest has diminished on a few levels" Looks like I wasnt the only one thinking the same.

    Sure post details about the bike but leave your personality out of it.
    #24
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  5. braaap!

    braaap! Long timer Supporter

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    Sheesh, it's a tough audience here at the '790 bar'... @guglemonster is Italian, no?... Maybe forgive and enjoy him for his hot blooded enthusiasm :)
    This place is full of characters... Let's not rain (reign) down on the overt passionate ones, that's what makes this place special!

    Interested to see more detail on the 'Kappa' build details... :dukegirl
    #25
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  6. guglemonster

    guglemonster Crivens!!! Supporter

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    interesting, so it seems that AGAIN, this posts moved from a technical, my bad, poor passionate description of a very nice project it moved to a "personal" attack

    @TrailTrauma will for sure say I'm passive aggressive again.

    How do you answer to such posts mate?

    baing an expert is a quite funny definition, are you referring to a broad band "I know it all type of expert"? or you and "some of you" do refere to a specific level of expertise?

    personal remarks demand, I believe, direct answers :)

    I am an expert in the following areas

    fuel filtration
    fuel flow management
    fuel systems
    EFI
    fuel pumps design
    fuel tanks design
    air flow
    air filtration
    engine protection

    on carbs I know shit :) happy? :)

    not such an expert on fluido dynamics at VS as it is, but we are fortunately collecting experience and fortunately being part of such fantastic projects help us to get in touch with amazing realities and learn a lot.
    I believe I know a lot about the LC8, so, help me to understand the "some of you" definition of not being an expert.

    but allow me, you took this nice post, sure put out by me so obviously flawed (@TrailTrauma I believe the punching has become exponential here right?) to a very low level :)

    the worst part is that whatever the next line will be, the tag passive aggressive is there :) well, the political correctness that put the US on it's knees if here fully represented :)

    going back to the bike Frusta 7.9

    my part? as an expert?

    fuel managment (hardware parts, software is under the responsability of a specialized company, unfortunately I cannot reveal the name)
    fuell pumps design and production/assembly plus "delivery"
    fuel filtration at neck and fuel pumps level
    air filtration
    airbox design, I did not do it personally, we designed it and a company welded the ALU, wish I could weld anything more than simple copper wires

    so, about my passion :)

    It makes me proud to have started as a simple stranded guy on it's 990 '07 ADV in the middle of France for bloody (too emotional??) fuel filters clogging in 2008, and now after 11 years leading a company with the highest filtration technology for Automotive.
    Yep, I am proud.

    cheers to all, and wtf, I'm still an Inmate with plenty of passion, just get out of my way if you don't like my posts, like I am doing with others, UNLESS what they claim will put somebody in danger, I still believe that bikers MUST help eachother, even if they are on a Harley with more Iron than a heavy truck :)

    cheers again
    #26
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  7. guglemonster

    guglemonster Crivens!!! Supporter

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    one thing that really made a hige difference in the bike handling was the total re-work of the rear shock

    there is an Italian company , Umbria Kinetics (https://www.umbriakinetics.com/), developed a very nice product to adapt shock responsivness to the real demand of the bike, under many aspects:

    load
    traction
    fatigue during long race under extremely heavy temp and "shock" conditions ( once very hot both air and oil are going nuts and shock will eventually make the bike extremely nervouse)

    As for now, they simply installed the "street" version and Paolo said that he finally is able to use the throttle without fear of the bike kicking of the seat, but they are already developing a Rally Race version with the testing from Gio Sala (yep, the KTM rally champion) and other "friends"

    they were fighting since the beginning with a very nasty reaction from the rear suspension, both cantilever design and direct link made the Rally riding impossible, during the Sardinia Rally Paolo was "expelled" from the bike for the usual problem, mostly he would try to use the gas like on the 950 Elvira project, like most of the experienced riders do, and the bike would respond always in the less predictable way, either giving a sudden traction surplus instead of "surfing" on top of the dirt, or trying to make the rear tire take over the front of the bike in a sort of auto drift mode, and it was not acceptable and quite dangerous, he broke the wrist, again, and a nasty break at the neck vertebras......

    the Front was "easy" to fix, they transplanted the TM/MUPO set-up forks and reinforced triple clampls, they were still fighting with the wrong fuel "placement" having only the front original tank, now thy could "move" petrol to the back thus having a better center of gravity/positioning.

    The AirTender (is quite expensive, let me tell you) solved most of the problems, also the possibility to adapt the spring preload matching ground and fuel amount at the rear tanks is very promising and effective

    they test the Rally bike on the Cross circuit close to their workshop



    Paolo is really happy with the design, also the fine tuning of the engine re-working the maps to obtain a less reactive power delivery, less digging with the rear tire, less fuel consumption, les wear on the rear tire on long manches.

    Hopefully during EICMA I will be able to have a chat with Paolo and take more pictures of "pubblic" details :)

    cheers

    cheers
    #27
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  8. chippertheripper

    chippertheripper motorcycle junkie Supporter

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    enough already.
    too much slo mo of the same corner and wobbly airs.
    post details, specs, and solutions, or save the marketing pitch for the vendor forum.
    please.
    #28
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  9. Nowwhat

    Nowwhat I'll Go Second... Super Supporter

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    #29
  10. guglemonster

    guglemonster Crivens!!! Supporter

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    Insulting the US now? Strong move for a vendor[/QUOTE]

    and do you feel insulted by that?

    the US ??

    even the freedom of speech of the Constitution is affected by this new rules implemented by the today society, as far as I know politics are not allowed in the forum mate, and I am really tired to be personally attacked, it's so lame

    really
    #30
  11. TrailTrauma

    TrailTrauma Nemophilist

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    Gugle, I appreciate the video however I found myself wishing it was edited with the riders/tuners thoughts on what you were all thinking as the (corner) iterations mounted. I'm not sure what I'm looking at to be honest. Not at my level. A suspension tuner likely knows, but a lay person may not. Sometimes I have seen videos in which this is handled by showing a brief clip at speed, and then a slowmo with a commentary on the tuners thoughts as to what to look for, or what improved over the last jump etc.

    I, for one, have never seen a rear shock like that air tender and would be interested to hear how it works, how you tune it, and how that manifested in achieving the results you were striving for as your racer did his test laps.

    In the end I just resorted to watching it at 2x speed to get a better sense of what might be happening. The best jump looked to be @ 11:35, which had a good attitude on the landing, but again, I'm just a dude with nary a clue.
    #31
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  12. ramirin

    ramirin Ready to push

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    Great thread - do I need to pick sides first or how all this works? @guglemonster if you picked the music for the video I'll join the other's :lol3 (this is a joke)

    Awful to see how guys go at each other here - for me motorcycling has always been so that it's totally fine to have some old cheapie, expensice factory build and home made bomb in same group and there's always that respect for each other because the bike or speed does not define rider - it's the passion we share.

    --

    When modifying bike that heavily, how do you do it? With tape measure + test&fix 50 times?

    Or rip it apart, 3d scan the parts, do the design, laser-cut stuff according to model and bolt-on with perfect fit (while the part data is already there for mass-production)?

    How much range / hp / weight lose is gained? What is the purpose of this all? And don't just say rally - if purpose is 'rally' tell us about kms, days, terrain etc..

    Nice to watch these 'complete rebuilds' while I enjoy making only small nightly tweaks myself.
    Next couple of weeks I'm most likely puzzled on how to remove those tamper proof screws to remove ign lock :lol3
    I could get things done for me and just pay for it but for me being puzzled every now and then is part of hobby
    #32
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  13. SoilSampleDave

    SoilSampleDave Dr. Zaius was right!

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    Insulting the US now? Strong move for a vendor[/QUOTE]
    I’m simply chomping on the popcorn in this thread, but for what it is worth, I believe gugle was insulting the oversized influence of political correctness we deal with here, not the USA in general.
    #33
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  14. guglemonster

    guglemonster Crivens!!! Supporter

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    sorry, for the long waiting

    @TrailTrauma

    audio is a real mess, there, I believe, was a strong FM or AM emitter that played havoc with our mic, professionals had such amazing gear, we simply used a mobile phone and the mic we use for our lab videos, there is also a video on their website about the functioning, Air Tender promised also to make an English one ASAP



    http://airtender.it/suspension/

    @ramirin

    main purpose of all Team Kapriony is to build a bike with which they will race international rallies, similar concept to the Malle riders of the Dakar, obviously they can compete only in the races where displacement is not ruled by the competition, like the official DAKAR with the 450 regulation.

    When they design a bike they obviously strip it down to the simple frame, and start working with a sort of reverse engeneering trying to understand what part will fail under huge extreme riding stress, usually we study the frame trying to see what is there for a "mechanical" reason and what is there for street legal purposes

    for example on the T7 frame we found some really absurde situations, frame cut and rebuild around the place where an ECU box would go, or some absurde frame rerouting totally nonsense.

    from there cut and weld, mainly strouts and strengthening of particular stressed parts, for example on the 990/950 just behind the pipe tube where the frame meet and you have the bols for the tanks, cracks there are quite easy to form.

    mass distribution will follow Paolo feelings about the bike, like all rally riders he likes a light front, centered masses and possibly the chance to move a lot forward and back ward to balance and adapt, also to relax when possible while riding.

    this was quite "simply" on carb bikes, now the hassle of the EFI fuel pumps and the fragile balance between filtration/protection and pump reliability has become an inssue.

    the twin pump setting is now standard on all their bikes, normal "local" rallies will not require such a complex, and heavy, design, but long range desert one is really important.

    the two main designs that you will see have separete tanks with single pump units, each tank has one pump, once the petrol is finished you switch to next pump/tank.

    this is very good in three cases

    1. riding adaptation to terrain configuration, you choose which petrol goes first
    2. bad fall with tank ropture, the other one will allow you to at least ride and maybe finish the "leg"
    3. failing of one of the neck filters, only one tank will be contaminated, the other will stay "clean"
    all this is based on the "calculation" and assumption that the fuel pumps will not fail and will simply follow the pilot decision

    the Frusta 7.9 and the T7 design will instead follow a different design, based on the assumption that fuel pumps under severe stress and condition may fail eventually

    all 4 tanks are connected, front ones via simply "equalizer" like on the OEM 990/950/790 design, taps obviously, the twin pump design sees two twin pumps (sorry for the repetition) in code and design in each side of the fron tanks, rear tanks will be connected via taps, each running to one side only, with the possibility to switch hoses and single tap operation.

    should one front tank be damaged by a bad fall, the other will operate separately, rear tanks will be kept full untill reaching one precise level of fuel in the front, much earlier than the std reserve so to keep the pump operating with enough petrol to keep temperature under controll.

    front of the bike will be rebuild following the latest fashion in tower, instruments design and visibility accordingly to Paolo height and requirements, same with the seat front and middle design.

    suspension is always a real PA. Like Paolo loves to repeat, the 950/990 base could become a real weapon with little investment, while the 790 need a real big work to make it "go well", sorry, no offence here, just a technicall consideration.

    Front one was taken over from the 950 Elvira, and the rear one, the real problem while extreme riding, was solved with the adoption of the air tender.

    rest of the work is dozens of hours of assembling, creating, and heavy riding testing, if Paolo can feel the bike like sawn around him he will race with it ;) and we will start sleeping again ;)

    about range, not counting the pumps wolume and some lost angles, we are close to 27-30 liters of petrol, depending on the new left tank we will finish welding in the following weeks.

    hopefully they will give me the complete specks detail to share with you all

    cheers
    #34
  15. guglemonster

    guglemonster Crivens!!! Supporter

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    I’m simply chomping on the popcorn in this thread, but for what it is worth, I believe gugle was insulting the oversized influence of political correctness we deal with here, not the USA in general.[/QUOTE]

    thanks, that was my point, we have a similar issue here, but again it's politics not bike ;)

    cheers
    #35
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  16. TrailTrauma

    TrailTrauma Nemophilist

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    Sounds intriguing. On this page , point 'C' states 'Height adjustment via ring nuts or wheelbase (no-preload required).'. Does that mean if I already have my forks stretched to 270mm, that I could install the air tender and using the ring nuts, extend this shock to 270 as well achieving a balanced suspension?
    #36
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  17. Noyah

    Noyah poser

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    Here I was thinking the slow motion makes it easier to see the suspension in action.
    #37
  18. AdvRonski

    AdvRonski They call me......Ronski

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    @guglemonster , thanks for taking the time to explain some of the work you guys have done on the 790. I would like to see some more pictures and discussion of the different pieces that have replaced the stock components. I'm still not sure why some folks here freaked out about this thread, but please give us more information about this bike.
    #38
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  19. guglemonster

    guglemonster Crivens!!! Supporter

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    wowowowoow hold on a sec mate ;) don't forget that I am the Filter man, suspesion belongs to other people ;)

    please, drop a line to the sales@umbriakinetics.com and for sure Gabriele or one of the technicians will for sure give you the appropriate answer, I don't want to give you a wrong answer ;)

    BTW, I asked Gabriele, who did his PhD in the US and worked there for 10 years, to implement ASAP the page and tech info in English, and he promised me to put it on top of the TO-DO list

    cheers
    #39
  20. bobnoxious67

    bobnoxious67 Baby steps...

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    Chris Birch races his without doing all this stuff :dunno
    #40