Tenere 700 suspension info

Discussion in 'Japanese polycylindered adventure bikes' started by Motociclo, May 30, 2020.

  1. powder85

    powder85 Been here awhile

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    I've seen the awesome work he has done but it's impossible for me to DIY.

    @Motociclo Acording to your first post spring rates, I have maybe gone with a too stiff spring for the fork upgrade I purchased. I bought the Tractive closed chamber cartridges with 6,4Nm/mm springs and I'm around 81kg fully geared. Do you think this spring rate is too stiff for my weight?
  2. svrider65066

    svrider65066 discresion is for pussies

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    G10 is a Kawasaki name for 10wt, this oil is sourced from KYB for all KYB suspension (will most likely work on others) and you can use other 10wt oil from diffrent manufacturers. There is also a G15 (15wt). I'm a plethora of somewhat useful info.
  3. svrider65066

    svrider65066 discresion is for pussies

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    So I'm asumeing you were trying to stiff in the compression up, hence the 17 x .15 shims on the low speed. Racetech gave me a stack suggestion alot like yours but it's only a single stage without the crossover. Please enlighten me as to what you were trying to achieve. I feel my comp is a bit mushy, but have not tried over 12 clicks from full soft. I feel my springs are adequit - I'm right there at 80kgs with gear. But my high speed is really harsh. Did your high speed stack take care of some of that?
  4. Torque

    Torque Been here awhile

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    This is one of the most informative suspension threads I have seen in a while. Lot of credit to Motociclo, great job.
    I am also of the ilk that the T7 can be really good with the 20mm oem cartridges and oem shock.
    My son and I had to have a money reserve before attempting this expensive T7 build. Also had to complete a 4+ year base valve design for WP before taking this on. The WP design has proven the viability of the design big time. Nobody has a high speed valve in a fork that we know of and it works so very well.
    Now it is time to roll. If you want to see the product in WP form I just put a shot of it on my website couple days ago.
    We are not a big company, father son team but we are certainly getting noticed, which means copied. Part of the game.
    Our intent is to make the stock suspension outperform the aftermarket cartridges and aftermarket shocks. Maybe not the KYB sss CamelADV is doing but who knows where we will end up?
    So first we start the process of getting some pistons designed.
    The oem pistons are very restrictive. This can make a fork too progressive creating a harsh spike in damping in a high speed event.
    The person we hired to design the pistons rides off road for a major manufacturer. Couple days after our meeting our first rendition of base and mid pistons are here. Wow he is fast on a bike and in cad. T7 Mid piston 20% .jpg
    Update: Piston designs have been finalized in our second meeting and are going into production very soon. They will flow in the range of three times as much as the oem pistons.
    A custom high speed base valve design is being attempted (not an easy task). Next meeting is in a couple of weeks.
    The goals here are sprung mids and high / low speed fork base valve adjusters like we do on the smaller WP bikes, (The Gobblers). Then we will look to high speed low speed shock adjusters.
    If we are able to attain these goals this bike is going to be, to put it mildly, very capable.
    I think you guys re-valving the the bike now are going to get some good results. Good enough to please many riders. Good on ya.
    The fun has begun!!!
  5. Torque

    Torque Been here awhile

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    Hope I do not come across to bold in previous post. Just a bit excited about the T7. If you want I will continue posting with the full build. If not all good.
  6. DWEL700

    DWEL700 Adventurer

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    All Good Torque. Show us what you got. :)
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  7. TNC

    TNC Candyass Camper

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    I love suspension threads. Details on well developed suspension designs and components should always be posted. Please go on.
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  8. worncog

    worncog YBNormal Supporter

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    Yes. This is one of the few quality suspension chatter threads.

    All ears here Torque.
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  9. powder85

    powder85 Been here awhile

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    All the work put in to study the T7 suspension is good but I think you are coming a bit too optimistic promising better performance with a valving/piston change compared to aftermarket high end parts full swap with low friction coatings, oversized pistons and super low machining tolerances.

  10. worncog

    worncog YBNormal Supporter

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    I think most of us have realistic expectations on improving the T7 fork and shock performance. It's an adventure bike, not a fat dirt bike as some people are dreaming it to be. If I get gains similar to my Super Tenere with Penske valves and a resprung/revalved rear shock I'll be reasonably happy. If it was my only bike I might drop 2k in the suspension, but it's not, so swapping the shim stack around and revalving is what I see this thread being. You are correct though. It will never perform like a large valved custom fork.
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  11. Torque

    Torque Been here awhile

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    Bunk and double bunk.
    Same old design for 20 years, fancy colors and coatings, claims of tighter tolerances like it makes a difference. Valved for the masses and Call it new and and better, bullshit. Can you explain the advantages. If I find it needs bigger pistons then that is what we will do. Doubt it though as I just ordered 500 of them.
    Low friction coatings can be done to any cartridge and you will not feel any change unless they are not coated at all like Sachs or Marzocchi.
    We actually have raced the Sachs and Marzocchi and had to coat everything very early on. For longevity not for friction. Riders never even mentioned they felt a reduction in friction. Yet they can tell when I pull one face shim.
    Machining tolerances bunk. We found the oem WP is better performing than the Pro stuff Trax etc. with tighter tolerances. Destry team runs oem as well for same reason.
    Marketing is a bit like political correctness. Lotta bullshit! Kinda like the Xplor fork now has the "advantage" of comp & reb on top. The comp does not work and we saved a bunch on compression adjusters and we took the valving out of the left fork, but they are so much better. Not!
    T7 is a fat dirt bike. And an adventure bike. Super tenere is not a dirt bike, it's a street bike. I am highly likely going to be able to launch and hammer the T7 when we are done. Just exactly like a dirt bike.
    "You are correct though. It will never perform like a large valved custom fork." Ignorance is bliss. Reign me in folks before I get real and get banned.
  12. readonly24

    readonly24 Been here awhile

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    I want.
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  13. TNC

    TNC Candyass Camper

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    LOL!...c'mon Torque...tell us how you really feel.:D

    Like you mention above, there's no one-size-fits-all when it comes to suspension and potential mods. However, I have found very few OEM suspension setups that couldn't benefit from some form of modification even if it was only in the spring and oil height changes. Some of the high end forks and shocks as delivered on top tier dirt bikes are damned good, but even many of those still benefit from personalization to the rider and type of riding and terrain. The last fork I modded was the horrible 43mm KYB that came on my '06 KLX250S. This is a USD fork that looks quite effective with 11+ inches of travel, but internally it had just about everything wrong with it. It took a complete revalve and spring mod to make it passable, but the rebound circuit was still a closed unit incapable of tuning. Bikes at these levels don't usually get all the "good stuff" mainly due to price and/or trying to get the bike to fulfill too many roles. The T7 appears to be a very good bike, but I'm sure that fork is not a ready-to-go top tier fork. The bike has to meet a certain price point, and the suspension is one of the areas they can save money without totally sacrificing performance too much. This leaves room for improvement, and I'm sure it can be tweaked to deliver a much better performance.
  14. Torque

    Torque Been here awhile

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    I agree TNC.
    The good. The bike has a standard base valve and mid valve design like the dirt bikes today.
    A cost saving design no doubt. Making the cartridges is not that involved but I don't think we need to go there. If I have to I will though. I think more room for a new base valve or something like that would be the reasoning. Not because of the 20mm piston.
    What surprised me was that I expected the fork to flex more when taking hits but I did not feel that. Even though I bent his rim out of the gate. That is what kinda made me want to take a closer look at the oem fork. We had the Africa Twin front wheel hitting the skid plate doing that jump on my website. So that was a concern for me.
    A baby 40mm shock, what? But the ratio does not work the shock as hard. Going to be interesting for sure and I prolly should have the owner pipe in as well so he can give his opinion as we move along. It is going to be a long term process though. So be patient.
    I will see if I can talk the bike owner to introduce himself here and it usually takes three rounds to get a pro I work with regularly dialed. Starting from scratch this could take 5 rounds to get dialed and that is after parts are in.
    I am going to get some sample pistons in and do a hand made base and mid build first to see if the packaging for the new components are viable.
    The WP unit we designed below is way to big for this fork so that is what I mean by packaging.
    Suspension101 25% 2.jpg

    Attached Files:

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  15. powder85

    powder85 Been here awhile

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    You are not giving any scientific evidence to prove all your stories. Oh sorry, I forgot you are the physicist magician that can bend time and space and make a wooden fork win a MXGP championship. The rest of the world we are peasants.

  16. amboss87

    amboss87 Been here awhile

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    :lurk
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  17. Glade

    Glade Adventurer

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    Does anyone remember what settings Jimmy Lewis recommended in his review of the T7? For some odd reason, my Apple computer recently stopped playing videos from You Tube. First, I will be getting the proper springs for my weight and projected load but adjusting the clickers will come after that and before any internal mods.
  18. stujamur

    stujamur keep rollin rollin rollin

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    I know before revalve i was adding ( turning ) lots of compression from factory settings . After revalve i went the other way .
    Also with rebound for offroad you want to be turning in / slowing it to a point before it is packing in .

    Here is my current setting
    72kg plus gear & tools . Revalve front & back . 80 spring . 5mm spacer.

    • Fork static sag 35 mm with 5mm preload spacer
    • Fork Rebound top- set @ 12 out.
    • Fork comression bottom set @ 14 out

    • Shock rebound bottom set @ 10 out
    • Shock comp - set @ 15 out
    Shock preload 0 - 58 mm rider sag - 20mm static
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  19. powder85

    powder85 Been here awhile

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    It looks like you have very small front SAG, that looks weird considering how soft the front stock springs are.

  20. stujamur

    stujamur keep rollin rollin rollin

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    I am only 72kg , the revalve and a 5mm spacer has helped
    sorry front is static