Tenere 700 suspension info

Discussion in 'Japanese polycylindered adventure bikes' started by Motociclo, May 30, 2020.

  1. svrider65066

    svrider65066 discresion is for pussies

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Oddometer:
    29
    Location:
    Mesa AZ
    Not sure what you weigh Powder 85, I am right at 80kgs with gear and my Rider sag with stock springs is 40mm. So him being 72kg, the 38mm rider sag (not static) should be in the ball park. If his static sag is 38mm, that seams pretty high. But he did add 5mm shim.
  2. svrider65066

    svrider65066 discresion is for pussies

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Oddometer:
    29
    Location:
    Mesa AZ
    Stujamur, what did your "revalve" consist of, did you use Monticeĺlo's recommendation on the piston stack or did you do something else?
  3. stujamur

    stujamur keep rollin rollin rollin

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,236
    Location:
    Brisbane north side
    I am not sure , i took it to a professional suspension tuner who has done a fair few t7,
    Asked for it not to blow through the stroke so quicky a to be able to be pushed a bit hard in the rough . I think he got the most out of the stock inners
  4. powder85

    powder85 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2019
    Oddometer:
    170
    Location:
    Barcelona
    Rider sag should be 30% of stroke. 30% of 200/210mm is around 60 to 65mm.

  5. TheMuffinMan54

    TheMuffinMan54 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2014
    Oddometer:
    320
    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    For what it's worth here are my fork mods and impressions (shock is still stock but will be tweaking it in the next couple months as a winter project): I didn't do any measurements for sag but like many I found it quite harsh in high speed situations, playing with the clickers did little or nothing to eliminate the sensation. After a quick talk with my suspension tuner we tested it out in a parking lot with a travel indicator and found the bike was using over half the travel just driving off a small curb...way too soft, blowing through the stroke and hitting a wall of damping. Time to tear into it...

    On disassembly we found a couple things that explained the problem. As expected the fork springs were too soft. I could tell just by how easy it was to compress the spring to get at the nut on the end of the damping rod that these springs have no place on a 450lb bike. Springs tested at roughly .56 kg/mm. For reference that is only .02 kg/mm stiffer than the springs that come stock on a Husqvarna 701 Enduro, which has 3 inches more travel and weighs 100lbs less! I used the original post in the thread as reference and ordered a .69N set from K-Tech...which was a little on the stiff side for my 100kg ready to ride weight, but 1) I like a lively feel and 2) it was all they had.

    While waiting on springs we looked at the valving stacks, and what stood out immediately was that the mid-valve has NO shims on the compression side, just a check plate with a spring, so the only thing controlling oil flow through the mid valve are the ports in the piston. The base valve has a compression stack, but as has already been mentioned in a previous post, the base valve really only controls oil that is displaced by the damping rod, a small amount of the total quantity. Put these two factors together (soft springs and largely uncontrolled compression damping) and you start to get an idea of why this thing feels so terrible in high-speed hits.

    So the fix: installed the much stiffer fork springs, beefed up the rebound shim stack to compensate, and eliminated the check plate/spring setup on the mid-valve to make way for a proper compression stack (that's as specific as I can get...sorry I don't have the actual shim sizes but my tuner plays his cards close to the vest). Base valve was left stock. Ran 5w oil instead of the Yamaha recommended 10w to aid oil flow through the small valves. Standard OEM oil height.

    The result: OH YEAH! It works like a proper fork now. Stays up in the stroke and absorbs that small high-speed chop beautifully without blowing through. Control on fast rough roads is greatly improved, I was easily going 20-30 km/h faster in every condition. Clickers are much more sensitive now too. Started at 12 and 12, ended up at 8 out on rebound and 16 out on compression, which tells me it's a bit stiff, but I expect it will get a softer feeling when I stiffen the shock up and transfer some weight back to the front. Speaking of the shock, I didn't really notice how bad it felt before because I was so focused on that "jackhammer" feeling the stock fork was giving me through the bars, but now I know its just as poorly setup as the forks were! Hopefully it will improve with a similar treatment...we'll find out in the spring!
  6. BygDaddee

    BygDaddee Where do I get a pie

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Oddometer:
    12,133
    Location:
    Brisbane Northside, OZ
    Thats a bloody stiff spring
  7. TheMuffinMan54

    TheMuffinMan54 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2014
    Oddometer:
    320
    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    Yes it certainly is. Originally I had planned on a .66 set, but they were on back order and had I waited I would have missed the rest of the riding season, so I went with the .69s. If need be I will get a softer set in the future, but I want to wait until I get the rear end sorted out before I make that call, as a stiffer rear end will definitely make the front feel softer. Even without a proper shock spring though, the forks with that spring rate don’t feel unruly. Firm? Yes. But not stiff or rigid. Personally I’d rather it be on the firmer side anyway...the extra insurance is nice in those inevitable circumstances where the pothole is way deeper than it looked or the jump is way higher than you thought, you’re already committed, and have to send it lol.
  8. Torque

    Torque Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Oddometer:
    560
    Location:
    San Diego
    Good write up.
    Yep no mid compression damping. Is it money? Lot of them do that but do not know why. Notice how small the orifices are on those pistons. It actually makes the fork performance reflect the old damper rod forks. Plush till you hit a high speed bump and then things go south. Will have reasonably priced large orifice pistons in 30 days or less so you can get more of your tuning parameters from the shims instead of restricted flow from the original piston. You can improve performance with the original piston until you start building for a faster rider, Big Hits, then the piston shows its limitations. No room to port them either.
    Regarding springs, I stock them.
    rideforzen likes this.
  9. colddog

    colddog Adventurer

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2016
    Oddometer:
    87
    Thanks for the write up, starting to get a feel for what I need to fine tune my suspension.
    Did you find that the dive from front braking has been tamed down? That is one of my major peeves with the forks so far. I have 6mm spacers added to my front springs, but this just brought to light the need for more education on shim stacks and other stuff I have never really dicked around with before! I would be interested in having a talk to your suspension guy, I'm up north in G.P., but would have no troubles sending/shipping parts south for tuning, as long as it stays in the province its relatively simple, cross border can be a pain in these times.
  10. TheMuffinMan54

    TheMuffinMan54 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2014
    Oddometer:
    320
    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    Yes...massively. That was the first thing I noticed when I rode the bike out of the shop: the brake dive is greatly reduced. Even on normal accel and decel (no brakes) the bike feels better, it doesn't pitch forward and backward when you're off and on the throttle anymore, just stays level and planted, much more stable. Preload spacers are a band-aid fix at best...they will give you a little more hold-up but you loose plushness in the initial part of the stroke. Stiffer springs are the way to go!

    My suspension guy is Boston at Direct Suspension here in Calgary...an expert in WP stuff but he's worked for OTSFF Yamaha's MX race team as well so he knows his way around KYB components as well. Contact info is here on the website: https://direct-suspension.com/ or you can reach him direct at 403-214-2850
  11. colddog

    colddog Adventurer

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2016
    Oddometer:
    87
    Thanks for the information, I will be contacting him soon about this set up.
  12. worncog

    worncog YBNormal Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2011
    Oddometer:
    1,381
    Location:
    Florida Panhandle
    If you want to learn how your suspension works, buy this book and it will begin to explain the functionality:

    [​IMG]

    Most people just send their stuff off and reinstall, which is a good option as there are a lot of companies who are really good at tuning the components to suit your desires.
  13. Benduro

    Benduro Motorodeo Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2012
    Oddometer:
    32,062
    Location:
    El Portal, Ca/East Bay, Ca
    OEM fork springs i removed.

    I thought stock was 5.8?

    20201204_164510.jpg
    rideforzen and tonyubsdell like this.
  14. ride2little

    ride2little Riding Like the Wind

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,513
    Location:
    Franklin, TN
    What do your new springs look like? Any imprint on them?
  15. BLZ2DWL

    BLZ2DWL Roustabout Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Oddometer:
    494
    Location:
    SW VA
    Hmm... the WR250R comes with a 4.6 N/mm fork spring. Wonder if these are an accident?
    Benduro likes this.
  16. Benduro

    Benduro Motorodeo Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2012
    Oddometer:
    32,062
    Location:
    El Portal, Ca/East Bay, Ca
    My new springs had 6.3 printed on them. Which is what I ordered.
  17. gun pup

    gun pup out fishing

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2017
    Oddometer:
    102
    Location:
    Spokane, WA, USA
    Odd- my stockers weren’t marked at all.
    Benduro likes this.
  18. TheMuffinMan54

    TheMuffinMan54 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2014
    Oddometer:
    320
    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    Don’t remember seeing mine marked either.

    If that is in fact the rate it’s beyond soft...4.6N something you’d expect to see on a 230lb enduro bike!
    BygDaddee and Benduro like this.
  19. Black99S

    Black99S Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Oddometer:
    463
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Suspension shop will compress in rig and confirm spring rate.
    Benduro likes this.
  20. Benduro

    Benduro Motorodeo Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2012
    Oddometer:
    32,062
    Location:
    El Portal, Ca/East Bay, Ca
    Did you check both ends? Mine are only marked on one end, each.