The 650 Dakar Thread

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by underwaterguru, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. Don Coyote

    Don Coyote Long timer

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    Dunno, that was the lingo I picked up 20 years ago working on bicycles.

    The restriction modifications are currently under discussion with the Chain Gang also...
  2. velo-hobo

    velo-hobo *_*

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    yeah, housing is the familiar term for me, also coming from bicycle wrenching!

    funny too, the dual-slot cam looks so much like a "travel agent" which is a cable pull modifier for using long-pull brakes with short-pull levers (or I suppose the other way round), or mixing indexed shifters and rear derailleurs that have different pull ratios.
  3. velo-hobo

    velo-hobo *_*

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    Also just found this M5x0.8 brake bleeder - http://www.bikepartssupermarket.com/BRAKE-BLEED-NIPPLE-JMPM5X08-mm--7570080_p_17370.html

    It's on ebay in the states for $20 shipped from germany but you chaps in europe can probably get it for much cheaper.

    JMP part 757.00.80

    EDIT: it just occurred to me that an alternate solution to a bleed nipple would be a small "hose barb", much more commonplace and available in many different threadings/materials. Something like this:

    barb.jpg
  4. Renaissanceman

    Renaissanceman DON'T PANIC! Supporter

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    Thus is a solution in search of a problem...
    Just sayin
  5. Gravel Seeker

    Gravel Seeker Old, growing older.

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    Wish it came up a day sooner before I got my cover back on :lol3

    (re bleed nipple) Wasn't some of the point to not have to use any tools to drain it.
    The barb works and with clear hose routed into a little loop back should keep it free of mud while also revelaing and internal fluid escaping.
  6. velo-hobo

    velo-hobo *_*

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    Well, I didn't fully pack the void between the seals with grease so if I wanna keep sand/dust away from the shaft seals it's getting a hose barb fitting added.

    Can leave the fitting off and squirt grease up in there if that ends up being the better idea. I figured I should add the threads while I had the cover off so I can clean the chip out before it goes back on.

    I don't think you'd need to back a bleeder out to get it to drain anyway - there's no seat for the bleeder tip in that weep hole. Plus it seems more likely to get clogged up with grease than a hose barb, since the fluid passes through a cross-drilled hole that is very close to the wall of the weep hole bore.
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  7. LarsE

    LarsE Been here awhile

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    Yes, bang on two years ago this June. I didn't bother with the different throttle cables because it'd be about the same cost, but I'd only get 34hp as opposed to the 48hp I have now. I bought a little L-shaped bracket that mounted to two screws on the throttle body (can't recall what they were for at the moment), and restricted the movement of the part the cable attaches to.
  8. Gedrog

    Gedrog 1000 mile stare a 1000 stories to tell

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    Yeah the idea is not new that was my original solution in 2014 when I mentioned it it was shot down everyone pointing out the risk of snagging the pipe.
    I have a few M3 & M4 barb fittings around here from that time
    Also looping the pipe upwards creates an air block in the event of a water crossing
    However I would not push fresh grease in there after the system is closed you may risk popping the seal
    I even dreamt up this type of connection to avoid damage to the case
    plastic.jpg
    I looked at Bleed screws and Grease nipples smallest M4 mainly because it is a cleaner install
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  9. Gedrog

    Gedrog 1000 mile stare a 1000 stories to tell

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    And if you were to use a brake bleed screw it would be advisable to cut the tip off otherwise you may as well put a screw in there

    Attached Files:

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  10. velo-hobo

    velo-hobo *_*

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    Nice, good idea! (to be clear, didn't claim it to be my idea - just running with something that was mentioned)

    A flexible tube that's just pushed onto a barb isn't any more likely to snag something than say, a coolant hose? The weep hole is pretty well tucked in there behind the exhaust header. But a plastic fitting would be a good idea in case of damage, and no chance of galvanic corrosion.

    BTW I did try threading M4 at first because the hole seemed closest in size to that tap drill (No. 30), but upon running the M4 tap in there, it seemed loose, like less than 50% thread height, so I went up to M5 and only drilled & tapped the first ~10mm or so of the hole.

    I figured if I went with the smaller thread in this situation, it would be more likely to strip out, and then I'm back where I started.

    Also stamped the thread spec gently into the cover to inform anyone who might work on this bike in the future:

    IMG_3299sm.jpg
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  11. NahdarVebb

    NahdarVebb Lukas

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    Looks like I got the numbers right, once in a while. So according to the numbers, 12mm mc should be ok, Toby is using it. Not sure about the calliper but judging by this picture it looks similar (post).

    I don't see connection. How's that? Whith longer travel 13mm mc I can use shorter levers as well.

    I'd say that the only way to really know is to try and brake hard. Don't think I'll persuade somebody to measure the cylinder volume for me. And again, Toby is using one.

    Thought so, but I wasn't aiming at radial brakes (calliper side) but master cylinder

    Did not know. Ineteresting.

    It may have been a blurp, but I see it as welcomed information. Thanks George.

    Why? I hate to admit, but I failed miserably rebuilding my front mc (rear is awaiting). Bore is smooh, piston is back, but for the life of me I can't get the rubber boot with spring and a pin to seat and "stick". Everytime I let go, the boot shoot out. I had a hard time getting the boot out, now it's the reversed problem. Even Mike spared some time and gave me a call. :fpalm

    Secondly, I want to replace control clusters that don't make a single unit with brake mc/clutch perch -> so I need something that has its own clamp. Looked around and didn't find half clamps for the brake mc/clutch perch alone, but if I would, that wouldn't solve the first problem.

    690/701 mc are very scarce, so it's either that brembo ps13 or new 690/701, double the price.


    This leads me to what wiz suggested once, get a second rear mc and swap old one for the Gowanloch and have a plenty time to work on the old unit.
  12. Gedrog

    Gedrog 1000 mile stare a 1000 stories to tell

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    yeah pulled out the junk cover out today one of the water pump cover nuts snapped off, found the same M5 would be the better thread size m4 is too loose butta got a bit keen the handle is a ratchet type and snapped the M5 Tap :fpalm
  13. Gedrog

    Gedrog 1000 mile stare a 1000 stories to tell

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    You can go single finger lever Toby made some custom levers
    [​IMG]
  14. Renaissanceman

    Renaissanceman DON'T PANIC! Supporter

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    Here's why I think plugging the weep hole is not a good idea...
    Have any if you had your seals fail and start to leak? I'm sorry to say I have... Many times. And it always starts with a couple drops... Sometimes it'll just drip like that for hundreds of miles. Until it really does cut loose, and then it'll actually start squirting out. Ask me how I know...
    If you run a bolt in there, or stick a hose on it... You're not going to notice those first telltale drops... I suppose if you're the kind of guy (or gal) that gets on their hands and knees before every ride, maybe. But once that hose gets gacked up, can you even see through it?

    Again... A solution in search of a problem.
    And a grease zirc? Where is the old grease going to go? You'll push the seals out, as previously described.
    People claim that coolant can get past both seals and into the crankcase - only if you've plugged the weep hole!

    Good luck!
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  15. Gedrog

    Gedrog 1000 mile stare a 1000 stories to tell

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    Never said you should plug the weep hole as you saw I also suggested avoiding anything that impairs the free flow
    1 Remove Grease Nipple valve install M6 thread grease nipple, ID of grease nipple = ID of original bleed hole water drains freely
    2 Install and cover with grease nipple dust cover that has been cut with X-Acto knife wasnt happy with the flow
    3 Install Pipe test flow all good probably fit a small fuel filter at the end test flow again
    Bezerka.jpg
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  16. Renaissanceman

    Renaissanceman DON'T PANIC! Supporter

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    Aye, you did not, Gedrog... And nice work there - I can see clearly how I may be wrong in my initional impression. I'll be interested in seeing how it fares out in the world.
    Checking 'down there' has become such a routine for me, I didn't see the need for the tubing, but it's a neat solution to keeping out contaminants while leaving the weep hole clear to weep.
    I was referring to installing a nipple or some other threaded fitting that defeats the purpose of the design.

    Lots of thoughtful and smart ideas on this forum... I think it's so cool to have this collective of folks from all over the world... and one thing we all have in common - Rotax, baby!

    Mostly, I bristle at the notion that these motors are fragile and poorly engineered and must be treated with exacting care. I think just the opposite!They're really tough and forgiving and as long as you follow the maintenance guidelines and ride it once in a while, it'll forgive the even my ham-fisted efforts!

    And doG knows I've payed my dues with this waterpump issue(s)... I was *this* close to pulling the trigger on the e-pump. I just don't want all that crap hanging off the bike... Fortunately, about that time I went to a more reasonable failure rate, and now I'm just lazy.
    And, of course, I've never had catastrophic overheating issues, either...
    Again, important to acknowledge that the vast majority of f owners aren't having this discussion...
    I've said it so often - the motor makes this bike - these are awesome motors... the rest of the bike... just okay. If they would put this Rotax in a 690... That might be an up-the-butt bike...
    Hard to know how many more years I'll get out of my old friend, but I'd bet it'll be an electrical issue and not a cooling issue that does it in...

    Great discussion!
  17. Gerald_G

    Gerald_G Adventurer

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    I cleaned the throttle body well, no difference. Things looked pretty clean in there. I don't have the tech to rebuild adaption tables would a dealer need to do this?


    The plugs helped some, but not much.
    I don't have access to a GS911, should I ask a dealer to check my firmware? I am in Central Alberta, my nearest dealer is over an hour away, but a do-able trip if needed.

    any chance this feeling is chain or sprocket related ? I inspected my rear sprocket last night and it looks kind of worn.
    I'm not expert enough to know. see pic. The chain feels like it has links that are hard to bend by hand.
    I assume the chain should bend smoothly.

    sprok.jpg
  18. Don Coyote

    Don Coyote Long timer

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    Yeah, that chain and sprocket are complete toast. If the links are sticky enough to hold an angle like that when they come off the sprocket, they will give a 'surge' feel to the ride. Another few hundred miles and the teeth on the sprocket will be sharp enough to use it as a lethal throwing star...
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  19. Gerald_G

    Gerald_G Adventurer

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    thanks that's what i was beginning to think.
    I'm googling, but while I do. Is 47x16 final drive stock for the 06 model?

    Any suggestions for sources ? BMW, third party? Thanks
  20. velo-hobo

    velo-hobo *_*

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    47/16 is the stock gearing - I replaced my set when I got the bike 2000mi ago and went to 47/15, like a lot folks it would seem. I am certain it makes the super slow speed stuff less jerky/less on the clutch and thus far haven't noticed it being a shortcoming on the freeways around here - if anything I still rarely get into 5th gear as there's too much traffic on most of the the roads where I could otherwise go that fast.

    I got JT sprockets and a DID VX2 chain. So far no problems at all. Not cheap but far from expensive for something that should last a long while.

    Sometimes being cheap ends up being more expensive.
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