The 650 Dakar Thread

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by underwaterguru, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. Gedrog

    Gedrog 1000 mile stare a 1000 stories to tell

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2013
    Oddometer:
    2,548
    Location:
    Lost in the Sahara
    Guess mine is an early revision
    8.jpg

    I guess this is the later version with the correction

    _DSC2038.jpg
  2. TobyG

    TobyG be happy :)

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Oddometer:
    1,381
    Location:
    Nemčija
    Yeah, another giveaway is the machined feature with the three threaded holes on the right side of the swingarm, probably intended for a chain roller.

    Still present in the casting later, but not finished.


    Yeah, that is one of the later revisions (oh so many, ultimately unsuccessful, attempts to prevent the cracks) and the very swingarm that is on my bike now.

    Dont wanna scare you, don't get me wrong.
    Just keep an eye on it.
    Recall, no problems with the swingarm during testing, but a couple cracking in the Dakar.

    Or as my guy at TT told me when we talked about me procuring that swingarm: "Try not to make it bottom out hard, better keep it easy when jumping and set up the suspension accordingly!"
  3. Gedrog

    Gedrog 1000 mile stare a 1000 stories to tell

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2013
    Oddometer:
    2,548
    Location:
    Lost in the Sahara
    Yeah probably never will Dakar race the bike, but will keep an eye on it as the odd pothole can cause things to badly collapse
  4. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Oddometer:
    33,390
    Location:
    Fort Collins, Colorado
    So I bought that $4 ebay cover for now just to get it quickly covered in this muddy cold riding season.
    I plan on adding a well attached guard to that inner fender next spring but this will work for now
    Thanks!
    Gravel Seeker likes this.
  5. Gravel Seeker

    Gravel Seeker Old, growing older.

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Oddometer:
    8,500
    Location:
    Dreary old Norway, dreaming of adventures past
    I don't think a small drain hole (3mm or so) will affect performance, but the surface tension of the water might be too strong to let you get away with just a small hole and a larger hole might affect performance. Also depends on your climate. I'd never do it if I was based in most of the Australian continent where it rains very little (west, center).

    Think I mentioned this a short while back, but after installing the K&N filter and Staintune exhaust I got the best dyno runs with the foam block in the filter and db killer in the can. We tried all variations of foam and db in and out.
    eakins likes this.
  6. Gravel Seeker

    Gravel Seeker Old, growing older.

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Oddometer:
    8,500
    Location:
    Dreary old Norway, dreaming of adventures past
    IIRC the stock bolt is only partly threaded.
    The stock ones are pretty dear for what they are, but easier for me to source since we don't have the huge hardware stores you guys have.
  7. Gravel Seeker

    Gravel Seeker Old, growing older.

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Oddometer:
    8,500
    Location:
    Dreary old Norway, dreaming of adventures past
    "Surely they (Öhlins) wouldn't have branded and sold them if they were bad for the shock."

    I thought about this later yesterday and can't imagine they would gain anything from this kind of strategy.
    Even with added revenue from more sales of service parts, they'd surely lose a shitload of new shock sales because of the bad reviews from owners caused by the shock sock. So my conclusion is the same as it was. I've also not noticed the shock packing and it probably is overdue for a service anyway after 10 yrs and 50.000 kms (Just had the sock mounted the last 3-4 yrs)

    Hope your milage doesn't vary too much from mine :-)
  8. WayneC

    WayneC Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Oddometer:
    5,017
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Yes to the drain, do you want water collecting there in an overnight stay out on the road ?

    Small adjustments to the inlet can improve flow as does the UniFilter/exhaust which gve a feel of better engine flexibility, changing to a plug like the Brisk BOR12LGS with a higher firing voltage puts more power into the spark improving combustion, again an incremental improvement especially on the single spark

    With continuous improvement a part may be updated but the Part No remains the same so the only way to know if a part has been changed is the internal documentation, with some parts like casting there will be a change in numbers on the part, rear hubs are an example of that, bolts wont have markings
    eakins likes this.
  9. Gedrog

    Gedrog 1000 mile stare a 1000 stories to tell

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2013
    Oddometer:
    2,548
    Location:
    Lost in the Sahara
    Ehhhh!!! you can always go for RAM Air :rofl
    zx7r3-e1464211204363-730x1298.jpg
  10. Don Coyote

    Don Coyote Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,088
    Location:
    Upper Midwest, US
    There is no access problem with the airbox off. Usually there is no reason to access the plugs more often than you should be doing valve clearance checks...
    Burner25 likes this.
  11. NahdarVebb

    NahdarVebb Lukas

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Oddometer:
    732
    Location:
    Olomouc
    I never had chance myself and hope I'll never will have to but, what if engine breats water in.

    Will unscrewing outside sparplug suffice or would both need to be taken out? Watched a vid of awesome prayers and...don't remember clearly but I believe they took out both s.plugs.

    While I alway took out plugs with airbox off, doing it on the road looks like a half day job. Especialy when not having torx for airbox nuts.

    Plus it would help to carry thin plug socket. But that's a different problem.
  12. Gravel Seeker

    Gravel Seeker Old, growing older.

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Oddometer:
    8,500
    Location:
    Dreary old Norway, dreaming of adventures past
    Not sure about the effect of introducing spark on the second plug to the wet combustion chamber, but one plug should suffice to get the water out. Once it's out you won't have compression any more and the water will be forced out the plug hole.
  13. NahdarVebb

    NahdarVebb Lukas

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Oddometer:
    732
    Location:
    Olomouc
    I hoped it would. Though your answer raised another question :D well I can always pretend that I am able to unplug the lead and leave spark plug in. But then, with wet contacts, will it fire an arc? Water is conductive so why shouldn't it.
  14. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Oddometer:
    33,390
    Location:
    Fort Collins, Colorado
    So I checked with my local dealer.

    It had a BMS update March 2005 for cold weather stalling.

    They could not tell what the update # firmware was then or even if there is yet another available. I kinda found this odd.

    Should I pay to have it checked again?

    Interesting how my 05 was built in Jan 04.

    20191114_174948.jpg
    20191114_175515.jpg
  15. WayneC

    WayneC Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Oddometer:
    5,017
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    The report you posted shows the Dealer logged into the BMW AIR System & looked up the recorded history of the bike using the VIN so I assume you merely asked a question but they did not hook the bike up to the Dealer System & go into ISTA diagnostics to scan the BMSCII & get the details from the bike, if they did that then you would have had the firmware details & the Dealer System would have indicated an update was available

    The entry for 23/03/05 is intriguing & odd with "wrong data version", it suggests it had EU data rather than US

    Re production date, nothing unusual there, the date of production is different to the local market VIN plate year

    In March 2005 the Firmware Version was Program A180E & US Data D607 so that is what would be in the BMSCII, the cold starting version was A170E

    There have been 5 updates since that time & so have the Dealer hook it up & program it to the latest version, they would also need to replace the Decompression lever & Spring which was a change to go with Program Version A190E
    Gravel Seeker and eakins like this.
  16. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Oddometer:
    33,390
    Location:
    Fort Collins, Colorado
    Ok thanks.
    Yes I just checked with a VIN to start a process. There is no casual or cheap stopping by a BMW in the US to have them check.

    So I'm clear
    -Cold weather version started at 170E
    -I probably have a later A180E
    -The latest is A190E, but with 4 additional updates between my A180E to current
    -What is involved with a decompression lever and spring update? Under the valve cover?
    -What if they update 1 before A190E, are those parts updated still needed?

    Should I really do all of this? Does the lever and spring just help ease of starting, is motor turns easier?.

    If these parts are under the head cover and judging the time it takes to get there, I'll be into a $300+ bill real fast.

    Might I just update to 1 before A190 E and buy a real good lithium battery? Bike runs well enough as is...will it be better?
  17. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Oddometer:
    33,390
    Location:
    Fort Collins, Colorado
    This calls it 200E?
    https://faq.f650.com/GSFAQs/FuelInjectionFAQ.htm#Software Versions

    Can I update to the latest software first and the do a lever & spring update myself later?
  18. WayneC

    WayneC Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Oddometer:
    5,017
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    The A180E was programmed to correct the cold starting problem of A170E, the other updates (current is the 2010 A210E) corrected a variety of problems including a hot start problem, these updates should have been installed during servicing but many did not do it plus some were done only if an owner complained about a problem, some info about the updates is on the web site

    When a Dealer programs a bike the AOS system does not allow the Dealer to select which update to apply, it is done only to the latest version / iLevel

    What ever you do it is up to you, I am merely indicating what updates there have been since your bike was last serviced at a Dealer
    eakins likes this.
  19. WayneC

    WayneC Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Oddometer:
    5,017
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Yes you can do the lever yourself, the FAQ at f650 only really covers the early single spark & should not be relied on for the dual spark, that is very old info

    The custom update for the single spark in the FAQ is not the way to go about things, it is very misguided without understanding of the system as is the BMSC reset BS
    eakins likes this.
  20. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Oddometer:
    33,390
    Location:
    Fort Collins, Colorado
    Thanks for the info!

    Are there any downsides if I have them run that latest update but still the use bike as is and update that lever/spring during a later tear down?

    So what I'm reading is my bike will have better throttle response but start the same as is, until the lever update is done?

    Can you explain how the updated lever/spring works? Is the greater decompression for easier starting?